PLEASE Help a Newbie...Merlot? Other wines? Confusion!

funny, merlot's are often the entry point for new wine drinkers! its really difficult to answer your question "what makes a good wine a good wine". i would say the best answer is, if you like the wine, its good.

Burgundy's and Bordeaux's (and quite a lot of the French) will have a slightly lighter "body" to merlot and sometimes the nuances of the wines are lost to a novice drinker.

All I can say is try buying different wines and get used to them - it can be an aquired taste (how many beers/whiskeys did you have to drink until you actually liked the stuff?). Maybe give Shiraz a bash, I find its easy to appreciate a young Shiraz without breaking the bank. Maybe give some of the Aussie or South African ones a bash I'm really not familiar with the US ones.

With regards to your comment on the Zinfandel - I feel the same way ;)

If you don't like the cabs then you'll probably prefer to stay away from the sometimes stronger shirazes.

"There is so much to pick from, and

I've been on a mission for the past 6 months or so to find my perfect Cab or Shiraz.(prefer the big full bodied reds) I also asked for help and suggestions in this ng.

What I've learned is, is that once I found a shiraz and cab that I really enjoyed (after many tries you get to know the taste sensation you don't like) then the pressure was off. Now when I try a new wine (almost always Californian or Aussie) and it is one of the tastes I'm not particularly pleased with I still try to appreciate the merits of that particular wine ( and put it on my not to buy list)

I also have to admit that my price limit used to be about $15 Cdn. But now realize that for what I want I usually must make the trip to the vintage section and cough up about $20-23.

Keep trying different merlots and maybe dabble in pinot noirs and zinfandels. Keep some basic tasting notes while you on your hunt for the "perfect" merlot or other medium bodied red.

My humble and still novice advice Larry Stumpf, S. Ontario, Canada

Like you, I started with domestic Merlots and tried a bunch of them in the under $20 range for a few months before I even ventured elsewhere. Next I went to Italian and tried a bunch of Chiantis and then on to Barolos. My theory is now that when I try a new type of wine I go for one of the more expensive ones that also has a decent rating. I figure the wine will have a better chance of being representative of the whole class of wines. Then I'll start trying to find cheaper ones that I enjoy.

If you want to try a very nice Shiraz without breaking the bank you can try the Lindman's. Very nice nutty, fruity and semi-sweet even my wife liked it and she only likes the very sweet Roses and of course the Zin's. With an ice cube...

Cabs, Burgs, Boj and of course the Merlot. Try them all and don't forget the California. I never liked anything from the west coast before. I was given a chance to try some unbelievable wines and I couldn't get over that the west coast stuff was that good.

Very pricey and I couldn't afford it. Some bottles were so hard to get they were the cult wines.

Mark Not4wood take out the no_Spam

There it is again. I saw it in the original poster's question and now here it is one more time. What's this business about Zin? Please, please, please distinguish between "White Zin" which is cherry kool-aid and 7-Up and Zinfandel, which is a dark red wine that offers some incredible nuance and flavor.

If you can taste a Ridge Zin and think it needs an ice cube, you aren't yet ready for adult beverages. Try some less expensive offerings like the Ravenswood blends or Cline Old Vine or Leaping Lizard. Look for raspberry, dark cherry, spice, leather, warm summer fields, etc.

That's your assignment for the weekend. Report on Monday.

If you "never liked anything from the west coast", where, pray tell do you find your wines in the US? Oregon PN, California chard, cab, merlot, PN, etc. etc.

There's a lot of very nice CA, WA, OR wine in the $8-20 range that is a long way from the over-hyped and over-priced cult wines.

See comment above regarding White Zin versus real Zinfandel. And, when you say "Burgundy" are you talking about wine from the South of France, or pinot noir or that box and jug stuff that you find next to the diet soda in the super market?

Wine is a matter of taste ;) I'm not going to tell you how to develop your taste/direction, but I found out that wine is not only a matter of what you like in the first place, but rather also an appreciation of what the wine has to offer and what you can take from it. Taste isn't something that is set once in your life, it evolves. There are wines that I had and wouldn't drink again, until I found a dish that made me reconsider. I like lighter wines; that's my bias. I believe your problem could be that the Cali. Merlots are very very uneven in their quality, you're better off trying yourself through some 2001 Pinot Noirs or 2001 Zinfandels. Don't stick to Merlot, because it's Merlot. I somehow doubt there is a really good Cali. Merlot below $40 out there.

I'll confine myself to the price range you gave and those that I believe are available everywhere.

Try Rancho Zabaco Dancing Bull Zinfandel 2001. I would believe you could develop a taste for it. It's only $10 too. On the lighter end you have Syrah and Shiraz. Bogle 2000 Petite Syrah is very nice. Rosemount Estate 2001 and 2002 Shiraz is good (Australian), so is the new Wishingtree. Both should be under $10. Only Chilean wine out of 7 I tried which I'd drink again if it were the best choice available was Concha y Toro Casillero del Diabolo 2002 Merlot. (might be spelled incorrectly). Kenwood Cabernet Sauvignon Sonoma 1999 is a bit higher priced, but quite drinkable. Last 'grape' I'd suggest are the Pinot Noirs. In your price-range Kenwood Russian River Valley 2001. Very pleasant. If you feel more adventurous and want to taste something outside of Merlot and std. red wine: Michel Picard Beaujolais Noveau 2003 (that's right, 2003). It's a very fruity wine, let it run over your tongue. Noveau is an annual ritual for me, not others. It's about $11 or so. Altos Las Homingas 2001 Malbec. It's ~ $11. Don't come and yell if you don't like it, it's different. I'd don't buy anything from France with a date past 2000 on it. 2001 has to be one of the worse years. Some claim 2002 Burgundy will be good. If you buy something from Italy look for Borolo or Barbaresco, those come from the Piedmont area, but are typically very very pricey and can be quite dry with a slight bitterness to them. HTH.

snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote:

[] ] I'd don't buy anything from France with a date past 2000 on it. 2001 has ] to be one of the worse years. Some claim 2002 Burgundy will be good. []

Hi Mike,

Some good suggestions (snipped for brevity) although I'm not a nouveau fan meself.

I've also found the Cline basic Zin very good in some years.

Have to take exception with your characterisation of '01 as awful in "France." France is of course a pretty big and climatologically varied place. My impression is that there are some very good Bordeaux in 01, as well as from the Rhone. You do have to pick and choose, which means either finding a guide you like, a store you trust, or just tasting like crazy... :)

cheers,

-E

I said "one of the worse years", not aweful, which is what I could call the Mouton Cadet 2001 White Bordeaux though. There are some excellent wines in 2001 from France... they're just far and few between. I had some good luck with 2 Chateauneuf du Pape wines, but they were both $40+ . For someone that is a beginning wine drinker and budget conscious I'd not recommend trying for some. I have the great misfortune of living in one of the alcohol-anal states of the US, so my selection is limited to begin with. Very interested to see what happens due to the big heat wave in France. I wish I could get some wines from the German Donau or Elbe next year, I'd imagine they'd be terrific. Wonder what it did for the Veltliners though. Anyhow, my inital advice regarding Merlots falls along the same line as the 'France' advice: you might be fishing in the wrong pond. Where I live the $10-12 lure doesn't pull out good Merlot or French clarets. When I found the Rancho Zabaco Dancing Bull Zinfandel I was happy as a clam, dirt cheap, and everyone that I put a glass infront of found something worthwhile about it. Would I go and buy a Chianti? No. Not worthwhile here. I haven't started on Spanish Reds yet, probably won't for a while either. Vita brevis...

] Emery Davis wrote: ] > On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:50:24 GMT, Mike said: ] > ] > [] ] > ] I'd don't buy anything from France with a date past 2000 on it. 2001 has ] > ] to be one of the worse years. Some claim 2002 Burgundy will be good. ] ] > ] > Have to take exception with your characterisation of '01 as awful in "France." ] > France is of course a pretty big and climatologically varied place. My impression ] > is that there are some very good Bordeaux in 01, as well as from the Rhone. ] > You do have to pick and choose, which means either finding a guide you like, ] > a store you trust, or just tasting like crazy... :) ] ] I said "one of the worse years", not aweful, which is what I could call ] the Mouton Cadet 2001 White Bordeaux though. There are some excellent ] wines in 2001 from France... they're just far and few between. I had ] some good luck with 2 Chateauneuf du Pape wines, but they were both $40+

Well, OK, I guess I assumed "one of the worse" meant "awful".

My point was that there were a lot of basic Cotes du Rhones from 01 that were at least decent. Certainly Parallel 45 and Guigal would fit the bill for the OP, are in the price range and widely available.

] . For someone that is a beginning wine drinker and budget conscious I'd ] not recommend trying for some. I have the great misfortune of living in ] one of the alcohol-anal states of the US, so my selection is limited to ] begin with. Very interested to see what happens due to the big heat wave ] in France. I wish I could get some wines from the German Donau or Elbe ] next year, I'd imagine they'd be terrific. Wonder what it did for the ] Veltliners though.

Yes, 03 will be interesting. My initial guess is it will be very mixed, and that you're looking in the best place for the best quality in the north.

] Anyhow, my inital advice regarding Merlots falls along the same line as ] the 'France' advice: you might be fishing in the wrong pond. Where I ] live the $10-12 lure doesn't pull out good Merlot or French clarets. ] When I found the Rancho Zabaco Dancing Bull Zinfandel I was happy as a ] clam, dirt cheap, and everyone that I put a glass infront of found ] something worthwhile about it. Would I go and buy a Chianti? No. Not ] worthwhile here. I haven't started on Spanish Reds yet, probably won't ] for a while either. Vita brevis... ]

Most new wine drinkers (and experienced wine drinkers) appreciate the approachable style in the Rhone wines, some mentioned above, which you can probably find wherever you live. The Sangre de Toro mentioned in another thread is probably worth a try, too.

Anyway, we can all find something to complain about: I can't get *any* bottle of Zin, for love or money! And I do like the stuff...

-E

Well, I'll just grant you that one ;) Of course, the next step e.g., "aweful year == all wines bad" I don't agree with.

I think the cheapest Guigal here is $15, followed by 2 for $25. But those are from 1999/2000. There are some Luis Bernard wines they have here in the correct price range, but I haven't tried them.. yet.

I believe they watered everything to death. I doubt you'll see a lot of good French reds, i.e., with good body and good nuances, coming out of the 2003 harvest. The northern areas of Germany however may get some wines that rival the best French wines. Then again, I'm not a vintner.

I'll give that a shot. I believe it's available here.

I'm sorry to hear that. I can't get a German Red wine here. I'd love to sample some because I heard they have been constantly improving.

] Emery Davis wrote: ] ] > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:27:20 GMT, Mike said: ] > ] > ] I said "one of the worse years", not aweful, which is what I could call ] >

] > ] > Well, OK, I guess I assumed "one of the worse" meant "awful". ] ] Well, I'll just grant you that one ;) Of course, the next step e.g., ] "aweful year == all wines bad" I don't agree with. ]

Yep, you've got my vote there too. Even in a "poor" year, good winemakers can do well. I've still got some '91 Prieure-Lichine that's drinking really nicely now. Or further from 94, 97 etc. In fact I find these "off" years quite useful as the wines don't need such long cellaring.

] > My point was that there were a lot of basic Cotes du Rhones from 01 that ] > were at least decent. Certainly Parallel 45 and Guigal would fit the bill for ] > the OP, are in the price range and widely available. ] ] I think the cheapest Guigal here is $15, followed by 2 for $25. But ] those are from 1999/2000. There are some Luis Bernard wines they have ] here in the correct price range, but I haven't tried them.. yet. ]

Wow, that's pricey! Would it be prying to ask where you're posting from? (Tit for tat, I'm in normandy.)

I don't like L.B. generally, but ymmv, of course.

] ] > Yes, 03 will be interesting. My initial guess is it will be very mixed, and that ] > you're looking in the best place for the best quality in the north. ] ] I believe they watered everything to death. I doubt you'll see a lot of ] good French reds, i.e., with good body and good nuances, coming out of ] the 2003 harvest. The northern areas of Germany however may get some ] wines that rival the best French wines. Then again, I'm not a vintner. ]

You mean that irrigation was permitted exceptionally? I don't remember hearing about that. Certainly both acidification and chaptalization are permitted in bordeaux in '03, which is IMHO a combination for disaster. But I suspect the very talented will have some very beautiful wines indeed.

[] ] > Anyway, we can all find something to complain about: I can't get *any* bottle ] > of Zin, for love or money! And I do like the stuff... ] ] I'm sorry to hear that. I can't get a German Red wine here. I'd love to ] sample some because I heard they have been constantly improving. ]

Sadly we almost never see German wines here, but that just goes to show... :)

-E

I just started a short while ago, the appreciation part of it, not the drinking ;) I have nothing fancy yet, and given my source I'll probably never will until I leave for better vinyards.

Sigh... Utah. I just live here, at some point I'll reach escape velocity and the mountain theocrazy (sp is correct) can self-destruct for all I care. I grew up in Germany tho, hence had to surrender half my liver capacity before age 18. :)

Well, 2 months ago you could have gone there and tasted the grapes and then we'd all be smarter :)

Heh, Le grand Nation, there's nothing outside of it. ;) I have to correct myself, they have a Spaetburgunder (ick, a Pinot Noir) here. $24, bought, will try and perhaps cry. I would have loved to see a Portugieser.. ohh man... that would be sweet.