Concerning syrah - historically

That sounds about right, Nils. The Oxford English dictionary is no help here, citing the earliest reference in English only to 1928. We know that Busby brought his cuttings of "Scyras" to Oz in 1832, so it's reasonable to think that the name must predate that particular event. FWIW, Gerald Asher the wine writer attended a 1992 Symposium on Syrah and reports the claims of the specialist Louis Levadoux that the names arise from the proto-Indo-European root "ser-" meaning "long lived." The normally encyclopaedic Jonathan Livingstone-Learmonth is surprisingly silent on this subject in his recently published N Rhone tome.

Mark Lipton (You're on your own for Pinot Gris)

I cannot help reflecting that that would be a conjecture with no support, since the word lacks provenance - unless it can, in some way, be linked to a word in the dialect of the Northern Rhone valley (the dialect is called Arpitan, I think) with better pedigree.

And, yes, I realise I am on my own cocnerning pinot gris. My question, such as it is, would be what the historical basis is for the claim that pinot gris was transported from Bourgogne (its most likely origin) to HUngary c

Sorry, but I cannot deny my nerdish inclinations.

Cheers

Nils

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" skrev i melding news:RNtul.7088$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

Hi Nils, you may want to look into this:

Thanks Anders. Charles IV was not Habsburg, he was Luxemburg and the son of Blind John of Bohemia who was, IIRC, the original proprietor of the motto "Ich dien" which was aquired by the direct method of killing and stealing, by the then Prince of Wales. He (Charles the IV, not Blind John nor the prince of Wales) died in 1378. This means the historical grounds for the story of him bringing Pinot Gris to Hungary becomes slightly less firm as the name Pinot is not documented until somewhat later, in the archives of the second or third Valois duke of Burgundy. It also appears less probable that Charles IV was in a position to "order" Pinot Gris planted in Hungary, since he had no jurisdiction there, neither as German-ROman emperor nor as prince of the house of Luxemburg. Hungary was a sovereign state and not a fief of the Empire, so why should he have views on what varietals should be planted on the shores of the Balaton lake? Unfortunately, discussing with the worthy scholars in Hungary has so far been a study in futility, either because the do not speak English, or because they don't bother. Sigh.

Cheers

Nils