Grape "variety" or "varietal"

Are Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, Cabernet Franc, Riesling, etc., grape "varieties" or "varietals"?

My ear says "varieties" but many folk in the wine world say "varietals".

What's the correct usage?

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Reply to
Leo Bueno
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You will probably get many different opinions on this but here's mine:

Pinot Noir, etc. are "varieties" of grape. But many people use the terms interchangeably and I don't make a big deal of it. There are more important things in this world to worry about.

OTH, "varietal" can be used as an adjective, as in "varietal characteristics" or "varietal labeling", whereas "variety" cannot.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

Hi Leo, your q. might be more appropriate to alt.linguistics (there's no such thing) :-) but here's my two cents.

Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, Cabernet Franc, Riesling, etc are grape varieties, it's only when they've been made into wine and (importantly) not mixed with another grape variety on the way, that we would call the wine (still not the grape) a varietal.

I'm going to copy your original post to a generally well educated and (in?)famously pedantic non- wine newsgroup. I post any interesting replies back here.

all the best Sammy

Reply to
Sammy

"Sammy" in news:AGRVc.1560$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...

Well, a pedantic non-wine newsgroup is sure to settle it. ;-)

More seriously, a non-wine group might be at sea, because it's a term of specialty. (I said at sea, not silent.)

In US English, varieties of grapes are sometimes called "varietals" by people in the business. The latter word was popularized originally in the reform effort after US Prohibition, toward labeling US wines varietally grather than generically. Jancis Robinson in the Oxford Companion to Wine insists that the word "varietal" is specific to wines, not grapes -- thus, land is planted to the Zinfandel variety that goes into our Zinfandel varietal wine. (Pedantic enough?)

(Schoonmaker and Marvel argue passionately for varietal, and also geographical, naming for US wines in _American Wines,_ 1941. In that book they use "varietal" for wines and "variety" for grapes.)

It's because of the old generic naming that the name "Chianti," for example, retains some unjust stigma in the US. Historically the US wine industry (and not just US), outside the control of the original regions using these names, took liberties in labeling cheap commodity products with names of important European regional wines like "Chianti" and "Chablis" and "Rhine Wine" and "Sauterne" [no s] and "Burgundy," so that many US consumers came to think of cheap bulk wines when they heard these names, rather than thinking of the proud and classy wines the names came from.

-- Max

Reply to
Max Hauser

The Canadian Oxford Dictionary (Second Edition) agrees completely.

Reply to
Chuck Reid

Leo, I agree with what's already been said here. To me, "varietal" stands in opposition to "geographical" as a labeling strategy for wine. I think that many people use "varietal" indiscriminantly to describe grape varieties, but that's just sloppy usage to me.

Mark Lipton

Reply to
Mark Lipton

I'd be interested in the views of others, but personally I thinl the labelling is the key here.

A wine with a label saying "Syrah" is varietal, even though in the EU it may contain upto 15% other grapes.

A red AC Burgundy is almost certainly 100% Pinot Noir, but I would not think of it as a varietal.

Reply to
Steve Slatcher

I would not disagree with these views.

In the USA, it's 25%, except in Oregon, where I think the figure is

10%. Also, there are no restrictions on what wines can be blended. In theory, one could bottle a wine containing 75% chardonnay and 25% cabernet sauvignon and label it as chardonnay. *Why* anyone would want to do that is another question entirely. ;-)

But would you say that the best such wines express the varietal characteristics of pinot noir? I would.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

So then, is there any "proper" word that differentiates the various "wine types" -- including blends -- as opposed to a word that just differentiates grapes that has taken on additional usage in the US?

And are Australian Chardonnay grapes considered to be a different varietal than California Chardonnay grapes, for example, or are they all just considered to be "Chardonnay"?

V

Reply to
Vincent

"Vincent" in news:46rWc.2452$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...

Per my previous info the grapes would always be a "variety," whether same or different. There are many sub-types of major grape varieties, for example the Pinot Noir versions used in Champagne blending are not the same used in red Burgundies, but they are all of the major variety Pinot Noir.

Reply to
Max Hauser

Yes.

But I think there is also something vaguely Burgundian about them. I'm talking about good straight Burgundy here - not the fancy stuff.

Reply to
Steve Slatcher

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