Rant re wine in ethnic restaurants

DaleW · 2005-04-20T20:28:38+00:00

Now, in general I don't have high expectations for wine in ethnicrestaurants (at least not ethnicities that aren't European or culturesthat are Eurocentric). In most Chinese or Ethiopian places I settle forbeer.But when one goes to a place that (1) aims for more upper-end dining &(2) doesn't have wine-hostile cuisine, it seems to be some care couldbe put into wine choices. I'm not expecting most upper-end Chineseplaces to have a Henry's Evergreen style sensibility, but one wouldthink SOME thought would be put into list.Last night Betsy got me ticket to "girl of the Golden West" Hersection-mate Charles asked if he could take us to dinner before theshow. He chose Shun Lee West, one of the old guard of upper-end Chinese(no real regional reference- some Cantonese, some Szechuan, some Pekingdishes). Betsy and Charles were playing and didn't want wine, so Iasked re white wine by glass choices. "Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, orPinot Grigio" The waiter had no clue as to producers -he would havechecked, I just said bring me a Sauvignon Blanc.So I had an OK glass of SB (I looked at bar as we passed, Fetzer)-reasonably crisp, no oak. But I kept thinking when my main course (seabass in hot bean sauce)came that an off-dry Kabinett would be the wayto go.Now, I'm not expecting restaurant managers to be winegeeks. And Irealize that "Chinese" includes a lot of options. But virtually anyresource you looked at for suggestions on matching Chinese food withgive as white wine options off-dry Riesling as a good option. Probablyfollowed by Gewurz, Gruner (if reference is recent), etc. Wouldn't amore reasonable selection of 3 choices be Chardonnay (cause there'sALWAYS going to be folks who want Chardonnay), Sauvignon Blanc (as afamiliar Chard alternative, and maybe decent match with Cantoneseseafood) and a Riesling?This might seem like petty carping. But I made a point of lookingaround the (fairly crowded) room last night.Of the 7 tables I was closeenough to observe, 6 had wine glasses on...

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James Silverton 21 years ago

Hello, Mark! You wrote on Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:56:56 -0700:

ML> DaleW wrote: ??>> Mark, ??>>

??>> ""Cantonese/Hong Kong, Shanghai, Sichuan, Hunan, Beijing ??>> and Nanjing" ??>>

??>> I'm not sure I've ever seen a Nanjing place (similar to ??>> Shanghai?), but can find the others in NYC easily. There ??>> are also some Chiu Chow places, which differ subtlety from ??>> Hong Kong. Plus a couple Tibetan places, which the Chinese ??>> government will tell you are Chinese. :( ??>>

ML> House of Nanjing in SF is my only data point there, but the ML> place is quite well known (and well reputed). Conversely, ML> I've never heard of Chiu Chow, but will have to look for ML> some. And don't get me started about Tibet...

I found another viewpoint on Chinese formal dinners that may also go to explain the poverty of wine lists in the Chinese restaurants that I know. I have lost my note of the book but I can find it again. Apparently a formal Chinese meal, according the author, consists of several courses but only at the second or "liquor" course is drinking both of rice wine and hard liquor customary. It seems that any dinner toasts are also made at that point. I will also admit that I've never been to one and wasn't it at such a dinner that George I passed out?

What happens at restaurants principally catering to a non-Chinese clientele does not have to conform to tradition. I tend to agree that such places might spend a little time on pleasing the customers and providing a selection of wines. I'll also admit that I have rather liked Pacific Rim fusion food for many years even if it is often a bit of a cliché and here the light white wines appropriate, IMHO, to some Thai dishes could be appropriate.

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Tom S 21 years ago

This may be a silly question, but has anyone here ever heard of a cobra dinner? I read about it in "Rogue Warrior" and I'm not sure that the author (Richard Marcinko) wasn't having us on.

Supposedly, the snake is eaten as the entrée - but the poison sac in Cognac postprandial was the part I was wondering about.

Tom S

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Hunt 21 years ago

Interesting, thanks. I've had the pleasure of attending several formal Chinese wedding meals, and did notice that the wine came out late. Most of these were

10-15 course "traditional" menus, and I'd hate to try and pair a wine with many of them. Fortunately, as a Caucasian "friend of the family," I've always been assigned to a family member, who knew the cycle of courses and would warn me if my "Western" palete might not be pleased. In each case I did try that course, but have to admit that the family member was always correct.

In Denver (Aurora, actually), there is a Chinese restaurant, New Orient, which did "fusion" before it became the vogue. I got the chance to work on their wine list, and have to admit that the chef was really, really into wine, and went out of her way to have great pairings available. She also had some heavy reds, and monster good prices, like Silver Oak Napa for US$45/btl. I always wanted to drink that, but nothing on the menu really paired. She said that she liked the wine, and wanted to have it available, regardless. I did do a few bottles, just for the wine, and the price - it was usually about US$50 at the winery!

Some years back, Mark Miller (Coyote Cafe, and others) did an Oriental food ( Chinese - several regions, Thai, Japanese, and South Pacific islands) tasting with Beck's, a Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, rice wine, and a Brut Rose. Each beverage went with a few dishes, but the Brut Rose was a perfect match with ALL of them. Maybe the Chinese should think about a full-bodied bubbly as a pairing.

Thanks for the info, Hunt

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Hunt 21 years ago

Hm-m-m, I've been to several traditional Chinese dinners, and there were some wierd course (to my poor Western mind, anyway), but NO cobra. I have had rattlesnake in San Antonio, at Fiesta Week, and it was excellent - still no cobra. I'll check with my Chinese friends, and see if they know of it. We also have some Punjab region acquaintances, and cobras are plentiful there. Maybe THEY have had a cobra dinner. Or, maybe not.

Hunt

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Rant re wine in ethnic restaurants

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