Sacramental Wine

Consider yourself invited. Get yourself to NYC area, I'll give Betsy the bottle of Campofiorin (and get some real Amarone to drink with it). :) Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

] > Does it? I didn't know that. I wonder if that's the same everywhere. ] ] Heh. Probably not in Moslem countries. Just look what they tried to do to ] Salman Rushdie for merely writing a novel! ]

Can't speak for any religion, but Rushdie certainly would have known that there was blasphemy in "Satanic Verses." As an educated writer, he certainly would have read the Koran, and no more is necessary. (I think to the careful reader of any of his novels, his islamic education is evident enough.)

-E

Not to make this an "invite yourself" party, and since I've got an unreasonable aversion to NYC (probably related to my Chicago upbringing), let me, from my mountain-view aerie in Colorado suggest that maybe a Zenato Ripassa would sub very adequately for the Amarone to baste the bird.

Made in the ripasso style, it is a good simulation of Amarone and at about $16 US/bottle, can be used to baste freely and lubricate the cook as well

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I'll agree with you both: I think that either the Campofiorin or the Ripassa would do admirably in place of the Amarone. Even one of the 'monster' Zins would probably work. And feel free to invite me, too, Dale! ;-)

Mark Lipton

Hi, Dale - I don't know if you have a Trader Joe's in your area, but they have recently carried a decent (if not spectacular) Amarone for $10US. That shouldn't be out of reach for Betsy's extravaganza.

Tom S

Currently, grocery stores in NY can't sell wine. Wine is sold in liquor/wine stores. There's a movement afoot to change that. So I have a couple of Trader Joe's nearby, but they don't sell wine. Curiously, though they did when they started, they don't sell beer, either.

The only grocery-ish store that sells wine (and liquor) in my area to my knowledge is Stew Leonard's. Which operates the store as a separate business (separate entrance and all). Another NY law prohibits liquor stores from having multiple outlets, which is why my local Costco doesn't sell wine (I think the LI one has an attached wine store, like Stew Leonards).

It looks like a Ripasso (Zenato or Masi Campofiorin) is way to braise the beef.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

The "monster" Zin, unfortunately would set the budget back almost as much as a mediocre Amarone--priced Turley's lately? And, you wouldn't really get the raisin taste--speaking of which, why not a glassful of box wine and a handful of macerated Sun-kist....?

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You are kidding? Right? the taste of Amarone has nothing in common with Sun Kist other than the perception that they may be dried similarly.

I think we have stumbled into a real quagmire here. The Christian Brothers are a world wide organization and one would certainly assume that these wines are marketed to Catholic churches around the world. These wines are approved by the Catholic church for communion. Some one must bless them. Many years ago (~40) there was an article in the now defunct Les Amis du Vin magazine about sacramental wines. It described such attributes as the wine had to be semi-sweet so people would not make a bad face when they drank it. They work hard at figuring out how to have red wine that does not stain permanently. They also use white wine for weddings to make sure the brides dress does not get stained. At the time the article was written there was no US winery approved. The Christian Brothers winery in Napa valley was not approved to make sacramental wine back then. I think it all came from France in 1965.

(most Protestant churches where I grew up use Welches sacramental wines, namely pure grape juice)

I'm not 100% positive about this, but AFAIK _any_ parish priest can bless wine. Not quite the same as with kosher wine, which has to be produced under rabbinical supervision using only kosher cellar supplies.

Many years ago (~40) there

That's old hat. The rubrics were revised to permit the use of white wine for communion, as well as crystal glassware (rather than the traditional gold lined chalice). The switch to white wine was a strictly practical matter: red wine stains are too difficult to remove from the linens.

I've always thought the protestants were cheated a bit on that score for the sake of temperance. Jesus didn't turn water into grape juice at Cana, and you can be darn sure He and the apostles didn't drink unfermented grape juice at the Last Supper!

Tom S

I'll pitch in with what I know. I'll also ignore the word Tokay on the label - I'll leave that to Ian who has bitten beautifully, and if he reads on he'll bite again.

In Wagga Wagga, Australia, I know the bloke who supplies the local diocese with sacramental wine, sourced from a producer of fortified wines. The wine he supplies is labelled sweet sherry (I know what Ian will say about that!). It is a fortified wine produced in the oloroso style, namely white neutral grapes that are partly fermented then fortified to 18%alc/vol, and aged for some years in various sizes of oak (probably quite large vats).

Exactly what is involved in getting it blessed for sacramental use remains unclear, but he did tell me that he had to get the blessing and approval of the bishop, and a whole load of paperwork was involved. From what he said, I don't believe there is anything special about the wine itself, though I joke and tell the cellar hands that if we were making it they wouldn't be allowed to swear or think unclean thoughts while they were handling the wine. I suspect it is more about ensuring constancy of the source, and that it is clean, neutral, and a good price.

Cheers,

When I do sacramental wine, I greatly prefer Sangrantino to American Tokay, which is probably closer to Central Valley Thompson Seedless than it is any European Tokay.

And I succeeded finding it:

My notes:

Academia dei Racemi (ADR taucht oft auf!) Hübsche Frucht mit deutlicher Vanille (Barriques? Chips? Wer weiß?); saubere Frucht, schöne Balance, sehr ordentlich, 90/100.

No, 2001 was not the best of years, and Krems isn't the sunniest or warmest spot in Austria. And, fwiw, the first vintage of a vineyard (called "Jungfernlese" or "virgin harvest") usually even gives *higher* must readings that the subsequent.

M.