TN: '03 Navarro Dry Riesling

I recall tasting this wine a couple years back when I visited the Anderson Valley wineries. My notes are only fair - 'she who must be obeyed' wasn;t impressed, I liked it but din't find the fruit character too well developed. Sounds like a little bottle aging has served it well.

But a question - "petrol"? ugh ... Wouldn't that be a rejection notice for any wine?

Ric wrote in news:2007101608130275249- ric@donotreplycom:

Surprisingly, NO! There are a few wine terms that would put anyone off it they weren't into the lingo. "Cat's Pee" for Sauvignon Blanc esp in Sancerre is revered. Petrol for Rieslings is a hint on the nose that actually enchances in the taste. Tar and Menthol might sound odd as well, but a bit of both on the finish of say a Cab. could be a good thing.

Now, cardboard or wet dog, that is the off putting aroma of TCA, cork taint, and pretty well universally detested. (I am waiting for that one contrary individual to exclaim the wonders of TCA infected wine.)

Petrol as used in GB is the same as gasoline as used in the US. This term has long been used to describe a clean aromatic character developed by some Riesling, often after many years of age. Crude oil comes in very different compositions, some having a rather clean aromatic smell and some being very foul in smell due to H2S and a variety of other, often sulfur, compounds. The portion of petroleum called gasoline after it is purified by, cracking, fractional distillation,etc. has other things added to improve octane rating, to make it burn cleaner, etc. Some of these additives can influence the smell. A very highly purified distillate of petroleum in the gasoline range would have a rather aromatic, clean smell. Those who first started using petrol to describe the smell developed by old Riesling, must have had a product made from relatively clean smelling crude oil in mind. I believe a product called "white gasoline" without additives was sold at one time for cleaning metal, etc. I have not smelled a gasoline in the US that smells clean in a very long time.

Yes, I tend to like various non-fruit flavors and smells in my wine, such as the meaty/gamey/funky notes in get in Rhone wines (Brett, anyone?), the earthy/mushroomy notes in Burgundy, the tarry and peppery notes in Zin and the minerality of various wines. Menthol and eucalyptus I can only take in small quantity now, as I find them too overwhelming (as can be the case with cedar, too).

And I'd add to that rotten egg/sulfur and the poopy side of Brett as two almost universally detested smells in wine.

Mark Lipton

I think that the "petrol" is more of a diesel oil smell than gasoline.

If you are speaking of current US diesel oil and gasoline, I agree that diesel oil is more likely to be have the smell the early UK users of the term petrol in relation to Riesling had in mind. The reason is that it is a higher boiling point distillate of crude oil and many of the stinky impurities are removed at a lower boiling point. Also diesel oil is not so loaded with additives as gasoline. To be more precise, I think what the early users of petrol in relation to Riesling had in mind likely is the smell of pure, aliphatic hydrocarbons of moderate boiling point. I have smelled series of very high purity aliphatic hydrocarbons such as hexane, octane, etc on up to very high boiling point ones. Such high purity ones are difficult to prepare, very expensive, and are used in research.They all had a clean smell. However the lowest boiling point ones had more sharpness, while the higher boiling point ones were more subtle.

Of course descriptions of wine smells in terms of something else is only an approximation, often quite crude, Riesling smells like Riesling just as a rose smells like a rose. If you had never smelled a rose and someone described the smell in terms of other flowers you have smelled, the description will be somewhat inaccurate at best. Then when you smell a rose for the first time, you likely will find that the description you were given is just a crude approximation of the smell of a rose. Often the "petrol" smell of Riesling is very apparent in older top Rheingau Rieslings of auslese grade. I have found several from 1976 that show much "petrol" character, but it is clean, not excessive, and is just one component of intense tropical fruit smells.

Sometimes I'd describe "petrol" in Riesling as veering towards vinyl, too.

Dana

Cat's pee I've long adored as a descriptor, and with tar and menthol (although I'm still a little doubtful as to the appropriateness of menthol as a good descriptor). But petrol? ugh ... obviously I am not familiar with popular descriptors for Riesling - but then again, I'm not a big fan of drinking petrol!

"Ric" skrev i melding news:2007101611501716807-ric@donotreplycom...

Of course, but if you think of ripe mango you may perhaps agree that there's a vague hint of petrol there too. And mango is a descriptor for some German rieslings.. Anders

That's a very interesting observation, Anders, and I will keep it in mind when I next open a Riesling. One problem, however, is finding a truly ripe mango around here: most of the ones I see are from Mexico and hard as rocks in the store :( (I've tried to convince my Indian students to smuggle some back, but they've all refused for obvious reasons). My recollection, though, is that _to me_ they have a certain "terpene" character that reminds me of pine sap. YMMV, of course.

Mark Lipton

Now that is an interesting descriptor - and one I'm familiar with. I'm going to have to go get a couple Rieslings and see if I can discern ripe mango - or anything akin to petrol.

Thx Anders ...

Some of the very ripe 1956 German auslesen, especially some top Rheingaus such as Rauenthaler Baiken, are loaded with tropical fruit that brings to mind mango and papaya rather then the usual peach and apricot fruit. Along with this fruit is a terpene like character that I also associate with Mango. Many of the Mangos in the store here also are from Mexico and are hard "cooking" Mangos. Many years ago, I could find the small, soft, ripe "eating" Mangos. Your best bet today is frozen mango from some of the central America countries. Some of these tropical foods are now shipped all over the US by companies that cater to people who came from those countries and the general public. One example is

The first sentence should read:

Some of the very ripe 1976 German auslesen, especially some top Rheingaus such as Rauenthaler Baiken, are loaded with tropical fruit that brings to mind mango and papaya rather then the usual peach and apricot fruit.

This is one typo that matters. The best I recall, most 1956 German wines were not very nice and did not have tropical fruit. In any event, it would be difficult to find one now that is not long past the peak.

"Ric" skrev i melding news:2007101908024916807-ric@donotreplycom...

OK, but remember, you'll probably have to find an old bottle from a ripe vintage :-) FWIW, I found a tasting note: Westhofener Aulerde Riesling Spätlese 1994 Ripe, rich aromas with a clear hint of petrol and some smoke. Lots of ripe mangos and other yellow fruits.

and another: Domaine Schoffit Riesling Harth Tradition 2004 classic integration of Petrol & apricot-pineapple-mango flavor;

TY Anders - very generous of you to follow up with some suggestions and your TN's