Using Magnets (Yes Magnets) to Make Wine Taste Better-I was a Sceptic

Hi Bob and thanks for an unusual and interesting posting. I have some experience with technical gadgets myself (in the real world I design microelectronic products, and had my first consumer gadget in successful production 32 years ago). Other genres of consumer technology with a non-traditional flavor have demonstrated important merit, and many too have proven out to be absolute junk (despite passionate followings). Honest testing will tell -- good luck with your initiatives there.

"BFSON" in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m06.aol.com...

This could be important. It was Haeger who wrote the extraordinary 1998 article "Wine Magnum Force," appearing in Los Angeles Magazine (it can be found online by search), which actually looked at the phenomena of Robert Parker and numerical wine ratings with searching depth and perspective. (Not every writer on such topics today is both inclined and equipped to do so, evidently). Many people have found that article striking. I look forward to checking out this new and longer work on a timely subject. It was the UC Press that published the large landmark UC-Sotheby _Book of California Wine_ in 1984 (Muscatine, Amerine, Thompson, editors), widely available now on the US used market.

-- Max

Once I get my device I plan to find 3 or 4 wines that have either the green tannins or the oaky tannins, pour one glass for each taster right from the bottle and another glass through the device. We will serve them double blind (the tasters won't know the wines, or which wine is in which glass, or even what the varietal is) I'll report back to afw once were done.

BY THE WAY-THE E MAIL ADDRESS IN MY FIRST POST TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG. THE CORRECT ADDRESS FOR PARTICK FARRELL IS snipped-for-privacy@surfcity.net

Bob Foster, San Diego

Bob, You're right to be skeptical. This is nothing but pseudo-scientific claptrap. He may be a MoW, but he's clearly not someone with much background in the physical sciences. The polymerization of tannins, a real phenomenon, is produced through oxidation or prolonged exposure to acid, neither of which are going to be affected in any way by a magnetic field, no matter how large. In my research, we routinely subject molecules to very high magnetic fields with absolutely no chemical changes induced. Indeed, if this were not so there would be no MRI.

Wow! A Wilhelm Reich reference on Usenet. I'm impressed!

Mark Lipton

I once dated a girl whose mother was deeply into ALL of William Reich's mumbo-jumbo. Figured out real quick that both Mom and daughter were way too nuts for me.

Bob Foster

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:20:55 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Aha!! I'd be MORE impressed if he (also) had no financial interest.

Rather like these magnetic devices claimed to reduce hardness precipitating out in household heating systems? I've seen a number of studies which show them to absolutely, completely and utterly ineffective.

Yes, I was wondering about that. What's more the magnetic field used for MRI is gigantic, to the extent that despite the fact that they were going to scan my _knee_, they were concerned that I might have some ferrous material embedded in my eye. The fields are generated using superconductivity and the apparatus costs millions. I would be surprised if a ceramic magnet could generate enough flux to affect _anything_ fast enough as it passes the field.

Salut/Hi BFSON,

le/on 07 Oct 2004 04:48:30 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

That _would_ be interesting. Actually, might I suggest matched pairs (by grape vine type) of wines. One which is well balanced, one out of balance. What would be tricky, would be to work out whether your tasting memory was good enough to remember! That would to some extent skew your results.

So is this the same things as "the Wine Clip"? I've never seen any results from a true double-blind test, despite many requests on various fora to the manufacturers. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

This "Wine Clip" scam was discussed in James Randi's column, it was explained that the weak fields involved could have no effect at all. Please go to

and click on commentary archive, scroll down to the Aug 20-2004 article. I think this article talks about Bio-dynamic grape growing as well (poo in a horn).

The trial described in this webpage (and my common sense) was sufficient to cause me not to give the thing a second thought.

Here's a pretty thorough review of the same device, or at least one similar:

The following paragraph from the review pretty much sums it up:

"Still, though, when you see 'overwhelming' testimonials from various allegedly respected wine experts regarding the extraordinary qualities of The Wine Clip, and then try it under controlled conditions and find that it doesn't seem to do anything, you've got to wonder how objective these people are actually being. There's no reason to suppose the wine aficionados are any less foolable than hi-fi enthusiasts who're convinced they can hear the difference between cheap and expensive speaker cables even if, unknown to them, the cables are not actually being changed at all."

Larry Coon University of California

That really says it all! I personally believe that no conceivable rationale could be adduced for the effect of magnets on wine and no proponent has ever carried out a proper double blind test. It sort of reminds me of one of the desperation measures of the Florsheim shoe company when they were going broke: selling magnetic insoles for their shoes.

Now, had Florsheim just advised buyers to pour their red wine through those insoles...

Hunt

Hi Ian - I take it that if the principle claimed for these magnetic wine gadgets works then anyone undergoing an MRI scan will end up with longer molecules, become more balanced and taste better? Cheers! Martin

I guess someone could sell magnetic inserts for jockstraps .......no, wait - we wouldn't want to either soften or prematurely age THAT, would we??

How silly of me!

I'd have a little more faith in the dansdata link if he'd used regular, experienced wine tasters and if they had tasted out of something other than plastic cups! Talk about skewing the results by the experimental conditions.

Bob Foster

That is pretty good proof that the magnets don't work Martin. I have had at least 6 MRIs since April and I am still unbalanced. And Ian, I have 4 stents around my heart and the MRI techs didn't have any problems or warning for me. Bill

[SNIP]

But Martin, what would happen if one had a bottle of 2001 Bordeaux in their pocket, when they had the MRI?

Hunt

Also, one bottle of each wine, and swapping the thingie isn't quite emperical either. However, I'm not feeling like taking US$40 (or even $20 for the other one), out of my wine budget to get one and try it with the Riedels. Call me a stingy skeptic, but I'll wait until Laube, or some other deep-pocket type does the complete test.

Hunt

PS Dansdata yielded an entire afternoon of links and extraneous reading, like I needed to surf, rather than work!

We will try to do the test when I get my device. But I think you do want to use just one bottle of each wine (one glass poured normally, one through the gizmo) Otherwise any differences may simply reflect bottle variation not the effects of the magnets.

Bob (no deep pocket-just curious) Foster