Various, RAMBLING, wine questions from a newbie

"JR" wrote in news:A4KdnRu3g57ajLLZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Once you identify a taste/smell it is certainly easier to find it again. There are tasting kits out there that include all the smeels thaet you are "supposed" to find in wines. To train the palate you use the keys and then see if they were in the wine and if so how much so.

It is like hte butter taste, once you id it you will probably be able to smell it before tasting. Cherry notes are like that for me. I can pretty well (please I know I can be fooled from time to time) tell a PN with one wiff.

I am just getting back to northern rhones and the smoky bacon thing that goes on in Syrah from that region. Opened one last night and it was almost too much of a good thing.

Because our "taste" is extremely limited, most elements are actually part of the olfactory sense, either through the nose or retro-nasal. Body and mouth- feel (part of the experience) are really tactile sensations on the tongue and in the mouth/palete.

First thought - smaller amount of wine. Second thought - what temp did you try the wine at. The old saw, "reds to be served at 'room' temp... " comes from European "room temp," which is just above cellar temp of 55F. I usually bring bigger reds up from the cellar and pour/decant at whatever the temp at the time, probably ~60F. By the time that I fiddle with the wine, the temp is probably ~65F, which is considered by many ideal for most reds. I'm asking this because one of the problems that I find with warmer reds is that the alcohol hits, big-time. In restaurants in the US, I find that I more often need the old ice bucket for my reds, than for my whites, which often come out at ~45F - far too cool in IMHO.

This is common. When tasting in a group, the power of suggestion can be very powerful. Same when you have TN's in front of you. I try to purge my mind and thoughts, and attempt to concentrate on what I think I actually find. It is not uncommon for some tasters (or copywriters :-} ) to find things that others cannot. I've had a recent situation, where everyone at the table found a certain element, but it took me about four trys, and I was really digging as deeply, as I could. I think that aeration and possibly temp may have been part of the difference, but for three big "go's" at it, the element eluded me completely. I also seem to find things that many others cannot. My wife thinks that I make this sh*t up, but I do not. She often finds violet notes in reds, that I can never find. Since she dislikes violets, I think she's "finding" these elements so she doesn't have to finish the wine. Since she's my designated driver, and the wines are usually well-aged Bdx, I always just take her glass of "violets" away and finish it myself.

It's more a recall of one's taste memory. The ability to associate particular tastes/smells with prior experiences takes some practice. It's less a process of developing one's tasting/smelling ability, as it is being able to associate the stimuli with past experiences. Also, taking apart the smell in your mind really helps - is it freshly cut apple, or cooked apple, or spiced apple? Hm- m, what spice on the apple? Now, obviously some folk can smell much better than others, and practice also does help. There are olfactory sensory kits available to practice with. One is setup as a kind of board game. One, from France, costs as much as a btl. of 1cr Bdx. A suggestion would be to pick up a Tasting Wheel. It's done by Ann C Noble of UC Davis and has all sorts of data on smells. Many wine shops sell them, and they are also available from UC Davis.

Time does change wine in the glass, or decanter. This is basically what is meant by letting the wine breath. With repeated swirling, you are aerating the wine. Also, food will effect the wine, either for the better, or the worse.

Sorry for the disapointment. One last thought - glassware. What glasses were you tasting from? Glassware can have a major impact on what one senses from a wine. I'm not talking about the anal retentive sales pitch for Riedel Sommelier glasses (though I have some personal experiences to support some of that), but about size, shape and thickness/shape of rim. I've done tests of the same wine from totally different glasses and have gotten distinctly different impressions.

Let us know how it goes, Hunt

Gratias tibi ago, Tommasius Michaelis.

I. Fabrettius Marcellus

Terra Australis Incognita.

EVO will not last more than a year, it will deteriorate rapidly especially if the container has a big airspace in it. It will not kill you, it just won't taste good.

I'll try that.

Well, it was room temp, which means today (it was beautiful out!) about 70 degrees F. Much warmer than you're talking about.

Well now you're making me wonder more. Certainly suggestion is a very powerful thing. OK, fine...So how do these high-falutin' reviewer-type guys come up with stuff. They're just experienced, and, of course, it's just their opinion...And, its the same as, I guess, movie reviewers. If you read a Roger Ebert movie review, go to the movie, and agree with him for the most part, you'll trust his review of another movie. If you go to too many movies and do NOT agree with Roger, you won't trust him for the next one...I'm starting to get it.

I wonder if I would bother, by that point, other than it would just be fun to try. if I didn't detect something, then I would just give up and move on to the next wine. If it's that hard to detect something, then why continue. And, if you say, you were digging as deeply as you could, then, yes, I can see that suggestion might eventually put that taste into your mind.

I believe you, and I'm sure that many of us who are married would believe you. Both male and female out there. Men and women, and people, are different.

That's funny! And, by the way, I smell no violets in this wine I'm drinking right now.

OK. I guess I'll practice, and enjoy the practicing while i do it!

Which also makes me wonder...are there any smokers that are also wine officionados? I was never a smoker, I more of an active guy, marathon runner and such, and don't want to make any judgements about other peoples lifestyles, but some who I know who are EX-smokers tell me that when they have stopped, things start tasting stronger. My wife quit smoking...um...14 years ago (in June), but we weren't really "serious" wine drinkers back then, and has never really mentioned the taste thing, but I bet if I asked her, she would say yes, things taste better now.

Hmmmm. I wonder if, for me at least, if that's carrying things too far. And, then, there's the suggestion thing again. Start smelling a card with violets on it, and the wine is going to taste like violets! :-)

I will survive. :-)

Well, it wasn't your standard, large red-wine type of glass, but it was larger than a glass that you would see for white wine.

About 2 3/4 inches in diameter at the mouth of the glass. Larger than your average glass. For example, when filled, my wife and I can only get about 3

Of course, to do this tasting, I only put a small amount in anyway, otherwise when I swirled it, it would have splashed out, so...

I realize that money is an issue, but the one and only tasting I was at, we used clear plastic cups. No one seemed to mind...especially as the evening rolled along. In fact, we were all quite happy that we all lived within walking distance. :-)

"JR" skrev i melding news:U-KdnVrpnYsZjrLZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

No problem, push the cork upside down into the bottle opening (the drier top part will be narrower) and then bang it down with your fist. Works nicely.

But, a screw cap is ideal, of course.

Anders who seldom puts away anything but empty bottles... :-)

"JR" skrev i melding news:NIGdnZgyZaOBF7LZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

Filled to the rim? That's never done in the salons, you know :-)

The obvious thing is filling the glass to its widest point (of course only when it tapers...). At that point you'll have the maximum exposed surface and thus the maximum bouquet may collect within the confined air space into which you may dip your nose, if you follow my reasoning.

That'll normally mean a glass about 30-40% full.

Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" skrev i melding

Ah yes, a man after my own heart ;-)

Me too, but even when I'm drinking an entire bottle of a white, I still like to keep it cold while I'm doing it...