Viognier and it's french counterpart

the primary traditional Viognier is Condrieu (as well as Chateau Grillet), althought there are others.

Pinot Noir isn't really "analogous" to red Burgundy. Burgundy is a place (a part of France) and Pinot Noir is the grape variety that is used to make all of the great red wines in Burgundy.

As you say, Viogner is a grape variety that is used in the Rhone valley--for example, for Condrieu--but there is not really anything "analogous" to it.

-- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup

The answers you have been given are correct. The Condrieu made from Viognier in a defined region of the northern Rhone by several producers is the most famous and usually most expensive. Quality can vary from producer to producer and from year to year. Most is best drunk quite young. Most is dry, but sometimes a sweet version is made. More recently French wine labeled by the name of the grape Viognier has been made in the Midi region of France. It usually is not of the quality of Condrieu, but it usually is much less expensive. Australia now also makes some Viognier that is decent. Also there have been a few wines made in California, and perhaps elsewhere, that include some Viognier in a blend.

Hi Thomas and welcome,

There are some decent viogniers coming from the midi, but Condrieu is as has been pointed out where the grape achieves its summit. Condrieu is expensive but worth it for a splurge; the grape takes on nuances there I haven't seen elsewhere. I will differ with cwdjr: I like aged Condrieu, though not all vintages will get better.

Also interesting that Cote Rotie, one of the world's great syrah-based red wines, often contains a viognier component. I believe up to 20% is authorized (didn't check, so I may have it wrong) but usually 5-10% is used.

I recently bought a few bottles from the Cabardes appellation, labled Vin de Pays Viognier. Not bad at the price, around 6 EU.

-E

I refer to way wines are typically named between America and France. America typically names a wine based upon the variety. France typically names wine based upon the region. This is how I make the analogy and thus invoke the term analogous.

-Thomas

But your "analogy" (I would say "correspondence") is between a grape variety (US - pinot noir) and an wine growing area plus a colour (France

- Burgundy red).

In this case there is no "analogy" on your terms, because while northern French wine regions typically use only one grape variety, the southern ones use many and almost always blend them. So for example there is not "analogy" to "red Bordeaux" because then you would have to name 3 grape varieties.

Same for Viognier. Northern Rhone whites use viognier but (more often) also use marsanne and roussanne.

So if you now shift your "analogy" to grape varieties and appellations, then yes viognier is "analogous" to Condrieu.

Viognier is grown in the Mid Atlantic region - specifically in Northern Virginia area. It makes an excellent wine by itself or blended with Chardonnay.

(US - pinot noir) and an wine growing area plus a colour (France - Burgundy red).

It can still be useful. Consider it as a correspondance between wines and the foods they pair best with. Would the set of foods that a pinot noir pairs best with be similar to the set of foods that a Burgandy pairs with?

Jose

You, of course, may use words any way you like. But if you use a word in a non-standard way (as you did with "analogous"), don't be surprised if your usage is not understood.

-- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup

To echo what others have said; and to add that Viognier is becoming increasingly popular here in the Sierra Foothills (California) vineyards. This last year we blended 30% Viognier from a friend's vineyard with our estate Marsanne - and have been very pleased with the result. I'd also add to another post that mentioned the practice of blending small proportions of Viognier into Syrah, a-la certain vintners in the Hermitage region - this practice is becoming popular in South Sustralia, where a number of excellent wineries (Torbreck, D'Arenberg, etc) are doing so with excellent results.

I think that the category is too broad, and even if I could imagine thinking of such wideband pairings, I would think that US pinot noirs and red Burgundy do not pair in the same way.

I'll have to keep an eye out and look into northern virginia viognier!

-Thomas

Who's standards do you refer to?

-Thomas

Although I sometimes like some wines older than many others do, Condrieu usually is not one of them. I have only aged a few Condrieus for several years, and they lost their initial fresh fruit which was not replaced with anything of interest to me, although some were still quite drinkable. However Michael Broadbent has reported on a few very old Condrieus in his books that he thought very good. Some of these are the now rather rare sweet versions. I would like to taste one of these outstanding older examples, but none has come my way yet.

cwdjrxyz wrote: > Although I sometimes like some wines older than many others do,

Not so rare after all, you can get Cuilleron's sweet Condrieu quite easily, I have not tried them VERY old but with 6-7 years the oak calms down and they are truly remarkable. Same goes with Pierre Gaillard (more subtle oak) and of course the third man, Villard, the best of all.

In older times, when Condrieu almost disappeared from the map, most Condrieu was sweet.

If I may "come out" on this subject, I would say that sweet Condrieu is way better than dry in most cases. As a sweet wine Condrieu has balls, while most dry Viognier just strikes me as way too wimpy - Hugh J. says the dry stuff is good for tagliatelle with peas, when I read this I almost fell off my chair laughing. This guy is sometimes too subtle... ;-)

Yep Viognier is popular here in Virginia (as well as North Carolina). Try