White wine in Red barrels?

Marc, Bin there and done that. Your Chardonnay will be beautiful pink color. Lum Del Mar, California, USA

First, used barrels are NEVER as clean as they should be. Trust me on this.

Can you use it? Sure you can! um, well, as long as you want a rose colored Chard.

Where do you live? If you're too far from me I have fellow wineries that I know who are selling barrels. For those of you who don't know....a used French or American oak 225L barrel goes for $10 to $40 thats it, not a penny more.

By the way....I just have to tell somebody...............we are well under way this year. Today we racked a little over 2,500 gallons. Ya just gotta love big stainless tanks. Whew! I'm beat!

Dave Stacy

Hang in there Dave.

To make a flat statement like that is utter nonsense! The price depends on the time the barrel has had wine in it previously, whether it was white or red wine, whether it is American, French, Hungarian or other oak, and how well tended the barrel is.

Clean, one year old white French barrels are worth $350 - $400. New, they're over $800 this year. I just got the bill.

Tom S

$10 or $400 is almost the same, not worth mentioning!!!

LOL, Guy

$300 for a USED barrel? Oh PLEASE....... Tell you what, I have plenty of used French and American oak that are

Not trying to be a smart ass.....seriously to help you out... Subscribe to wine country classifieds. If you sign up for the email delivery you'll get bombarded by wineries selling top quality used barrels for ........yes I'm not kidding......$10 to $40.

Be very careful when buying used. Make sure they have been ozoned (spelling?) and SO2'd. You won't get much flavor from them but they are great for bulk storage.

I know Nickle & Nickle has a bunch of really nice French oak for sale. We bought a few and they are up to par.

Ok having said all that you might have trouble buying just 1. But for $10 to $40 who cares? Buy 10, kepp what you need, and cut the rest in half and sell them for $50 as planters.

DON'T PAY MORE YOU'RE GETTING TAKEN.

Dave Stacy

Yes, I'm aware of that - but those are typically four or five year old _red_ barrels that have become virtually neutral in flavor. There isn't much - if any - oak character left in them. Also, they're probably American oak, which last time I checked is about ¼ the price (new) of French oak.

OTOH, new French oak is over $800/barrel right now, thanks to the strength of the Euro vs the dollar. A one year old French barrel is easily worth ½ the price of new - especially if it's a white barrel. There's a _lot_ of flavor remaining in a one year old barrel, but each subsequent year's use extracts more flavor from the wood until it's rendered neutral. It takes ~5 years or so for that to happen. If you work in the business you should be aware of that.

That first part (about the ozone & SO2) is good advice, but see above for my comments on the last part.

Tom S

Well Tom I do respect your opinion. You might want to review the following that appeared in my email box just this morning:

Category: Barrels & Tanks Ad Title: USED FRENCH BARRELS- Red Ad Text: 2001's 250@ $60; 2000's 40 @ $40; 1999's 41@ $30. Mixed coopers, burgundy. Tel. Michele, Domaine Carneros. (707) 257-0101ex124 or email snipped-for-privacy@domaine.com

I've said all along they were used Tom. I also said you can buy French OR American at that price. The proof is above.

By the way I do agree on your comment about the rising Euro. However check with World Cooperage they haven't raised prices yet. We've always been happy with thier French barrels. You can still get them for just under $800.

Dave Stacy

Those are _three_ year old _red_ barrels. There's a big difference between those and a _one_ year old _white_ barrel. White barrels command a higher price than reds because of their relative scarcity and versatility, and the value drops by about half each year they are used.

Tom S

Yes. I'm sorry I fail to see how this changes anything about my original statement saying that a person can buy a used French or American barrel for $10 to $40.

I'm not trying to be a prick here but this thread is the exact reason why I lurk and don't post here. I try to help a guy out and get slammed for it.

Tom I was just trying to be nice to a guy I don't even know. My statement is accurate. Yet I get inflamitory comments like "If you're in the business you should know" Get some rest, have a glass of wine, and lighten up.

Dave Stacy

Which email delivery is that? I'd consider buying a used barrel for that kind of money. (Not particularly interested in the additional flavoring from the barrel, more interested in the breathing that adds that little subtle .... something).

Some wineries in the NE are still using the same barrels they were using over

thanks,

Woods

I didn't say you couldn't. I took exception to your lumping _all_ used barrels into the same category, whether they're 5 year old red barrels or 1 year old white. There's a world of difference between those, and if you're knowledgeable on this topic you should be quite aware of that. Your previous posts indicate clearly that you aren't.

I didn't _slam_ you (and nobody else did either). I merely attempted to more fully inform you on a topic that it was apparent you were not completely familiar with.

Only to a limited extent. Sure, you can buy neutral French or American barrels really cheap. I read the online posts at Wine Business Daily too - but those barrels are only good for _neutral_ red wine storage, firewood for a barbecue or making planters! You never seemed to GET that the newer a barrel is, the more it's worth - especially if it's a white, French barrel.

Yet I get inflamitory comments like "If you're

Inflammatory? Perhaps - but you seemed to be rather thick-skulled on this topic and I finally got frustrated trying to explain what I consider to be a pretty simple concept.

I apologize for being a bit brusque - but after 20+ years experience I know what I'm talking about, and I won't recant anything technical I've said on this topic.

Tom S

Woods,

go to winerysite.com sign up for the email delivery, you'll get one or 2 a day with lots of stuff for sale. Last week there were three 10,000 gallon tanks for sale. Those might just fit in your basement if you knockout the first and second floors. Try explaining that to the wife, "Its ok honey, you didn't really want a living room did you? We never use it." :-)

Anyway there are lots of barrels for sale there. Just watch out and make sure they are clean.

If you're up near Houston drop me a note and I'll sell you some.

Good Luck

Dave Stacy

We aren't enjoying it Tom, just that nobody wants to get hit with a game misconduct for being third man in. ;-) (sorry if the hockey reference escaped some of you).

Brian

Tom

You could have purchased 2 Hungarian Oak barrels for the price of one French. In taste tests last year we found that the Hungarian afforded a taste profile superior to French or American oak.

The oak forests used for Hungarian barrels are some of the same forests as those used in the French.

NOTE: I have nothing to do with any barrel builder. This is simply an observation.

Regards

Jerry

Jerry,

We thought about trying a Hungarian program and have had others say almost exactly the same thing you did.. Would you share where you bought them from?

Dave Stacy

Although I have zero experience with Hungarian oak, that's about to change. I just bought a new François Freres Hungarian barrel and I intend to try it on my 2004 Chardonnay. It wasn't quite ½ the price ($460US) but pretty close.

I'm also interested in Russian oak, but I have no idea where to get it - yet.

Now _that_ simply doesn't compute. Why would any cooperage sell French oak barrels at Hungarian prices? Are you suggesting that some of the French barrels we are paying through the nose for are actually Hungarian oak?

I understand. Thanks for the info.

Tom S

Tom

We were told about the Hungarian forests by one of the owners of Barrel Builders in St Helena, CA. His family has owned or leased these forests in Hungary for quite a few years. I believe that he meant that oak from these forests was sold to French coopers to make "French" barrels. I am not sure if that is the case today, or if that is more a historic note used to suggest that there is little difference, if any, in the species of oak used. Perhaps what he was saying was "Whey spend so much on French oak when its the same as our oak."

So yes, at times the expensive French barrels are made from the same oak species as less expensive Hungarian barrels. Perhaps its a function of manufacturing costs, taxes, etc. that cause the difference in price. I am not sure.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Jerry

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Dave

The company we deal with is Barrel Builders, P.O. Box 268, St. Helena CA. 94574

Phone = 1-707-942-4291 or 1-800-365-8231 (West Coast). If you call, ask for Bob Roberton or Phil Burton.

They sell new as well as reconditioned and used barrels. As of July they were basically sold out unless, someone cancelled. I think that they have an order arriving in November. My info is a month or more old, so it would be necessary to contact them for an update.

The web site is

I hope that this helps

Regards

Jerry

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