Food or smoking?

In message , Jamie McDonell writes

The smoky flavours in beer are swamped by smoky surroundings (including a room with a smoky wood fire) leaving the rest of the beer unbalanced. It still tastes nice enough, but you don't get the effect the brewer intended.

D'you mean you don't like kippers, smoked cheeses, cullen skink, Lapsang Souchong, smoked ham and bacon, finnan haddies etc? Well, that's a' the more for us.

In message , Sue wrote

Would anyone like them if they had been cured in second hand tobacco smoke?

Unfortunately most of the products you list are more probably soaked in some liquid smoke flavour rather than having been smoked in a traditional way.

Indeed. That's why I prefer simple roasty flavours to actual smoke flavours. An Old Peculier (or a Black Irish Plain Porter) goes much better with a bowl than an Aecht Schlenkerla.

Well, I wouldn't if they were smoked over tobacco.

Excellently put. I shall have to remember that for future use.

d.

I suppose it depends what you are smoking - if, as you say, you are a connoisseur of fine pipe tobacco then you may have a point, but I don't believe the same principle applies to the average punter in his local pub with a packet of Marloboro.

It's a simple physiological fact that smoking damages the ability to taste. Why else might you suppose that professional food and drink tasters, and perfume testers too, are exclusively non-smokers?

d.

This is very true indeed, although don't expect the outright-ban brigade to even began to comprehend the subtle beauty of it.

A bowl of Bobs Chocolate Flake and a rubbish Marlboro Light may as well be exactly the same thing, as far as they are concerned.

BTN

In message , Sir Benjamin Nunn wrote

No, the smoke from pipes and cigars is much worse for a non-smoker

I disagree, I prefer it to cigarettes any day - smells better.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "Irish style porters?" Surely, not Guiness? Porters & Stouts do have the kind of flavours that can survive smoke, I agree. However, it certainly doesn't complement them. Ask anyone who has to write tasting notes of them and you'll find they advise avoiding smoke to appreciate the rich flavours.

Can't speak for everyone, but now that I think about it, the best evening's smokes I've enjoyed have all been when I've been drinking dark beers at the same time.

BTN

In my experience, I get a lot more compliments than complaints when smoking my pipe.

Strangers approach me and talk about what I'm smoking and how great it smells. Friends ask me specifically to smoke around them so they can enjoy the rich and tasty aroma.

Overall, I've become a more popular person since taking up the trusty briar, and not just among smokers either.

BTN

Me too. Cigarettes are really awful, but there's something less off-putting about a pipe. Although, it's still relative - I don't want to come home smelling of pipe smoke either.

Before smoking was banned in my city, I always hoped that somebody would open a pub with a smoking room where cigarettes were banned. I'm not a big fan of the smell of American cigarettes, but really loathe the acrid smell of British/Canadian ones. If I want to smoke in a bar, I can still head across the river to Québec, but there's not much chance of avoiding cigarettes over there. Most churches there have a series of ash trays at the doors so you can butt out before you go in for mass.

A smoking room (or rooms... as above) should do the trick.

A good friend of mine smokes Silk Cut, and they are unbearable - awful, acrid, eye-stinging things.

Trouble with smoking rooms is that they're usually nearly empty, partly I think becasue they are often the coldest, least convivial bit of space in the whole pub. People want to be with their friends more than they want to be shunted into some ante-room.

That's why I'd prefer a balnket on ban on smoking in all pubs. That way smokers could pop out every now again to smoke, then come back, and the whole of the pub would be everyone's to use without demarcation.

Another point is that smoke from a neighbourig room will still leave your clothes smelling even if you've never been in that room.

Not if the pub has adequate air extraction/cleaning. A habit on the part of the smokers doesn't actually excuse the lack of care for various peoples well being on the part of the licensee/owner. With the sort of smoke extraction they should have been fitting for years smokers could actually have a more pleasant time.

If it takes higher prices in the smoke room to fund it then I know of at least one smoking friend who is prepared to consider the cost vs the cost of not smoking. (Ah, yes the latter is a negative amount isn't it? They end of financially better from both sides if they give up. Oh, well, can't be helped I suppose) :-)

I can see how they could be integrated into new builds quite easily, especailly in the "visible air conditioning" style that people like Wetherspoons use, but wouldn't such systems be quite difficult to build into older pubs?

I can't see why, unless the whole interior is under a preservation order or similar. They seem to find it incredibly easy to find space (often near doors or windows) for those flashing blinking warbling machines so why not shove that out of the door and fit a smoke extraction system in it's place venting to the outside if required.

In many cases the main fume extraction will probably be the smell of last weeks fish tainted vegetable oil. (Should be frying their chips in proper fat for best results, not that low temperature vegetable rubbish - but that's another story.)

Not as long as the pub has at least eight inches spare headroom somewhere neare the middle of the room and 16 square feet (four by four) of flat ceiling. Such units were common in my city (Ottawa, ON) in the days before smoking was banned.

Now, if you want to smoke, you go across the river to the Québec side, where every church has ashtrays in front of the doors. (It's a base canard that québecois and québecoises smoke in church. They butt out at the doors.)

I've yet to see a pub air cleaning system that actually worked effectively, by effectively I mean I don't smell smoke or smell of smoke after a visit.

The industry has spent a long time trying to convince us the systems work, the observed reality is they only work in some pub layouts and they're the ones where smoke wasn't much of a problem to start with!

Smokers have such a deadened sense of smell and a cloud of smoke smells around them from their clothes that they probably think air cleaning works. If the purpose is to give smokers a better experience they work but that's not much use for non-smokers.