Food or smoking?

Nov 16, 2004 83 Replies

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The government plan to ban smoking in all pubs in England and Wales that serve food.



According to

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===================================================The British Beer & Pub Association (BBPA) said a smoking ban based on food seemed "designed to drive pubs back to the days when they were drinking dens".



The Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) meanwhile, is warning that the ban will be divisive for community pubs. Community pubs will face the stark choice of tearing up their food menus or alienating regulars by banning smoking.



CAMRA is still pushing the Government to allow pubs where there are two or more entirely separate rooms to allow smoking in one, while other rooms where food is served are made smoke free.



Chief executive Mike Benner said: "While it's clear that smoke in pubs needs to be managed, these proposals threaten to split the pub trade, creating polished smoke-free eateries for the middle classes and smoking dens for everyone else.



"The problem is that committed smokers may well switch their custom to small community pubs which don't serve prepared hot food and the resulting fug may alienate other parts of the local community - no one enjoys sitting in a smoke-filled room. It's quite possible that small community pubs, which rely on beer sales rather than food sales, will tear up their menus to make sure their smoking regulars are not driven away.



"It is the small community local which is likely to bear the brunt of these proposals should they become law."



=================================================== Seems to me like a policy thought out by people who rarely go in pubs and don't understand how they work.



Forcing small pubs to choose between food and smoking may well backfire and lead to far more pubs than the government envisaged deciding to drop food.



IMV Mike Benner's comments were very apt and sensible.


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"The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of civilisation in any country." (Winston Churchill)


And encourage more binge drinking. Typical joined up thinking again by the Whitehall suits :-(

John B

Conversely, if there was a smoking ban in pubs, it might encourage non-smokers to visit more often?

It appears to me as if smokers think they have a right to smoke in pubs.

It hasn't this side of the pond. Why would it there?

But pubs which have banned smoking completely have often experienced a downturn in business, suggesting that there isn't a huge latent demand from those who dislike tobacco smoke so much that they shun pubs because of it. See, for example, the recent case of the Crystal Palace in Bath.

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"The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of civilisation in any country." (Winston Churchill)

The industry itself needs to get its collective finger out. If the majority of pubs in the UK had decent ventilation in the smoke rooms and other rooms that were completely smoke free the Whitehall bods wouldn't even be giving it consideration.

At present they do. Sadly, in the current situation there are precious few pubs that a non-smoker can choose not to smoke. Maybe it isn't too late for the pubco's etc to do something...

Strange, the owner of a New York bar was on UK TV just this evening saying they had seen a 9% increase as the result of a ban.

In message , PeterE wrote

In nearly 100% of cases there is no choice for a non-smoker.

Even if tomorrow a pub went non-smoking but served nothing I wanted then I would not visit it. A no smoking policy in isolation of anything else doesn't make a pub more worthy of a visit. If there was a choice of two pubs close together that that had a near identical range of beer and/or food and/or some other factor and both were reasonable busy before one of them went no smoking I wonder which one would end up with more trade long term?

It appears that the industry wishes to create the impression that pubs are the last preserve for smokers. Is this the best way to attract more custom from a population where fewer people smoke?

Wheras a pub in Basingstoke that went no-smoking, soon incorporated a smoking area.

John B

There's a pub not too far from here in Eighton Banks, Gateshead, which went completely non-smoking a while ago. You can hardly get into the place now; it's so popular.

Mind you, the carpark area is chocablock with cigarette ends (or was when I visited a while ago).

Has anyone considered that while they may lose smoking customers, they may well gain non-smokers (an increasing majority of the public)?

Quite apart from health issues, a lot of us find smoke totally unpleasant.

In reality I go along with what you say. As a lifetime non-smoker I have put up with smoke filled pubs for a long time now. However, what annoys me are the chain smokers and those that smoke in designated no smoking areas with no consideration for non-smokers.

The following is from the BBC UK News today:-

Ed Gershon, of the pub chain JD Wetherspoon, said the smoking ban would be good for business.

"The majority of people don't like to be around smoky areas. We think it will bring a lot more people back into pubs long-term."

Hmm, so why doesn't he ban smoking in all his pubs, then?

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"The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of civilisation in any country." (Winston Churchill)

Hmm - a certain JDW pub very near here doesn't seem too enthusiastic about enforcing their non-smoking area. On several occasions I've complained to the local "manager" and JDW's head office about offenders. A "blind eye" seems to be turned to those who light up in the NSA even though there's clearly plenty of space (midweek at least) in the smoky bit.

A pity really, since they usually (AFAIR) have a choice of some decent local (Darwin) brews.

The point is - why should the brewers/"pubcos"/whoever etc. have to provide air conditioning at great expense (which is ultimately borne by ALL the customers), to get rid of the smells of a particular clientele?

What makes me laugh is that it is going to take UNTIL 2008 for it to be implemented fully.

WHY?

Smoking in public should be banned now. How many people suffer from passive drinking?!?!?!?!? ;)

Simon

The problem with no smoking areas is that nobody has told the smoke that it has to keep to the smoking area. What really irritates me is people who smoke in dining areas during meals. The smoke really spoils the taste of the food for the rest of us.

Brian

In message , Simon Ough wrote

Don't go there - there are the victims of drunk drivers, violence caused by drunken[1] yobs, criminal damage to property at closing time etc.

However, there is already legislation in place allowing punishment of those partaking of this anti-social behaviour.

[1] it may not be the booze alone that is the cause - it may only be people who smoke and drink i.e. mixing the drugs!

In message , Simon Ough writes

Its a good point. Most places we suffered from 'passive drinking' now have street drinking bans, pubs closed by the police and assorted criminal charges against the drinkers responsible.

Strange that its OK for a landlord to eject drunks but they can poison the air to their hearts content...

if so many people are desperate for non-smoking pubs, why are there so few of them? where there is enough demand a supply will be created, simple market dynamics.

err, we do if the pub allows smoking, and surely it should be up to the landlord whether they allow smoking on their premises or not.

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