Greene King IPA - How did it become a CBoB finalist?

Well, now we know. I wasn't expecting any serious investigative journalism covering this issue, given the usual WB reporting of GBBF ('It just gets better!' etc) but I didn't expect the coverage to be this feeble. No journalistic coverage, a defensive editorial, a couple of angry letters and a few carefully selected letters blaming bad cellarmanship, bigoted CAMRA members etc. What a whitewash.

It's the last straw. I'm cancelling my membership direct debit today.

Best regards, Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

Paul Sherwin wrote in uk.food+drink.real-ale on Fri, 27 Aug 2004

10:41:22 GMT MID:

Well, they didn't print my letter. This was probably because I never wrote one - did you?

FWIW I didn't think the coverage was *that* one-sided, though there were a few letters defending what it was clear at the time of the GBBF was going to be a controversial award. Nothing like getting your retaliation in first, I suppose.

I think that if we're going to get something good out of this, it needs to be a more transparent CBoB in future (IYSWIM) - how many members submit(ted) nominations, how many local awards are counted, how many beers make it to the final stage, how you get onto the judging panel are questions that immediately come to mind.

Hmmm. I recall cancelling my CAMRA membership one year back in the

1970s, for reasons so obscure now that I can't even begin to guess at them.

I thought the editorial comment was even handed, and the selection of letters printed was critical rather than anything else. Do you get a different issue to me?

One letter mentioned cellarmanship IIRC (I could go back downstairs and read things again I suppose) and part of that suggested that perhaps the GK habit of selling beer squirted through tight "sparklers" blandified the overall taste.[1]

Of course you could offer yourself as a super critical judge for a panel next year and see what happens.

[1] Which I suppose raises the old "sparkler" (de-sparkler should be the proper label) debate.

In message , Steven Pampling wrote

It doesn't matter what WB prints as the number of active CAMRa members in a typical branch drinking 24/365 couldn't keep the smallest of back street locals viable.

The majority of Real Ale will be consumed by non-tickers/non-CAMRA members. If potential customers are persuaded to try the best bitter in the country because CAMRA says it is and they suffer the experience that awaits them in the majority of GK pubs they will stick to lager.

Well I suppose they won't be able to try the beer that actually won Champion Beer of Britain because Kelham Island doesn't have that much capacity to serve every real ale pub in the country...

This is exactly the dismissive patronising attitude that makes me despair of Camra, rather than try to influence it. Bye bye.

Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

A couple of years ago, I was on the judging panel for one of CAMRA's largest regional beer festivals. The selection criteria were being an active branch member and being available to turn up on the day.

One of my top five was a beer I normally wouldn't touch with a barge pole, it being in many ways the local equivalent of GK IPA - it's amazing how much of an effect knowing what you are drinking can have on the taste buds.

On the other hand, the eventual winner turned out to be a beer from a local microbrewery that I had previously claimed to be a favourite when I knew what I was drinking, and I had rated it second overall in my scoring, so I was pretty pleased with myself (even though I didn't guess what it was).

The competition was judged over three rounds, with a different set of judges in each round, each whittling down the selection. I was judging the second round, along with a fellow branch member, and we had to reduce the list from about 18 to a final 8, I think. The beer that my companion and I unanimously chose as our favourite was a mild, even though neither of us is a regular mild drinker and would normally choose something with plenty of hops.

Later, when looking at the other judges' marking sheets, I noticed that the final round judges had scored the mild very low. I qusetioned them about this and their simple response was "we don't like mild".

At least GK IPA won fair and square - you just can't fake these things, especially when you consider how many rounds of blind judging it went through to get its silver. Dismissing a beer on grounds of style rather than quality is a genuine travesty.

d.

Pardon? Patronising would imply I had some sort of power or influence in the campaign and looked down on others.

I'm just a member of CAMRA. I happen to spend my main holiday of the year working at the Great British Beer Festival but then that applies to about a thousand other members whose work is much appreciated by the various visitors. (The first thing a work colleague said when I got back was how much he'd enjoyed the festival)

The simple fact is that if the result were fixed then GK wouldn't have stood a chance and, as others have suggested the better perceived quality at the festival might just be down to not squirting it through a tight sparkler.

His huff arrived and he departed in it.

In article , Paul Sherwin writes

I wish I could assure you that you will be missed, but ...

"Roy Bailey" wrote

No, Paul ,you may not be dismissed by CAMRA's many dinosaurs, but God knows, they need people like you, though most of them are too blinkered to realise it...

Oops - sorry about the typo. For 'dismissed', read 'missed'

Actually I think each differing view that no longer participates diminishes the whole.

Some fool nominated it I suppose, and it won at a blind tasting, this does not say very much for its competitors.

In message , Paul Sherwin writes

Greene King had a monster beer tent at the recent very large Bedfordshire Steam Festival (150 engines - they claimed a record). They had a long row of casks on stillage with insulated jackets on them and double gravity taps - no beer engines or breathers. I decided I must sample cask IPA in view of its accolade at the GBBF. It was very drinkable, so much so that I needed a second pint to confirm my opinion. It was selling very well to oily thirsty people who didn't seem to be strangers to beer.

Yorkshire born and bred, I was raised onTetleys, Ramsdens, Websters, Beverleys, Barnsley Bitter, Duttons OBJ and the like. I absorbed the local wisdom that 'Southern' beer was no good at all, an effete weak substitute for the real stuff which had to be made in Yorkshire to be even drinkable. Moving to Hertfordshire in 1973 was very dangerous. Where would I get a decent pint? A first session with Greene King Abbot convinced me I wouldn't have a problem! Then there was Adnams, Benskins, Rayments and the real local stuff, McMullens - still makers of the finest cask light mild (AK) to be found anywhere. I can't help thinking that some of the resentment towards Greene King stems from their current expansionist tendencies. It would be a sad day if they vanished into the maw of the international megaswill merchants.

I think that you need to educate your palate a bit. Greene King IPA is a very one dimensional bitter. The use of hop oil rather then whole hops or even hop pellets results in a rather course, metallic bitterness that is entirely lacking in the flowery aroma and fruity notes available from say Oakham JHB.

Amid all the furore, people seem to have forgotten that it didn't win - it came second. Behind a microbeer at that.

d.

GK IPA isn't my favourite beer either but cut the patronising eh?

Indeed.

Although I tried Pale Rider when it came back on later on the Friday evening session at the GBBF and must say I was *distinctly* underwhelmed.