The Perfect Pint?

Harvey Milne of Cask Marque gave a talk on the subject of 'The Perfect Pint' at the Scottish Brewing Archive yesterday:
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Regards,
John
-- John Ewing Glaschu / Glasgow Alba / Scotland
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John Ewing
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Reply to
John Ewing
> Harvey Milne of Cask Marque gave a talk on the subject of 'The Perfect > Pint' at the Scottish Brewing Archive yesterday: > >
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>
I wonder if he'd like to visit Lancaster. We've been singularly unsuccessful in getting any of the local Cask Marque assessors to come to talk to us. Everyone thinks it would be a fascinating talk but they're very rel;uctant to even reply to us.
Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue CM in my mind.
-- Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
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Reply to
loobyloo
> Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue > CM in my mind.
Anything that assumes the state of a 'spoons pub to be other than the product of the "manager of the session" is always going to seen as devalued.
-- Steve Pampling
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Steve Pampling
Reply to
Steven Pampling
> I wonder if he'd like to visit Lancaster. We've been singularly > unsuccessful in getting any of the local Cask Marque assessors to > come to talk to us. Everyone thinks it would be a fascinating talk > but they're very rel;uctant to even reply to us.
We got Mike Parker, a cask marque inspector, who is also brewer at Hesket Newmarket brewery to talk to one of our meetings. He was really interesting and worthwhile. Certainly reassured us about their standards etc.
Lancaster wouldn't be all that far down the M6 for him. Try him!
-- Chris de Cordova (West Cumbria & Western Lakes) www.cumbriacamra.org.uk Whitehaven Beer Festival: Sept 30th & Oct 1st 2005 (www.whitehavenbeerfestival.co.uk)
You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive.
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Chris de Cordova (West Cumbria & Western Lakes) www.cumbriacamra.org.uk
Whitehaven Beer Festival: Sept 30th & Oct 1st 2005
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Reply to
Chris de Cordova
> > I wonder if he'd like to visit Lancaster. We've been singularly > unsuccessful in getting any of the local Cask Marque assessors to > come to talk to us. Everyone thinks it would be a fascinating talk > but they're very rel;uctant to even reply to us.
We once had a Cask Marque inspector talk to our local CAMRA branch. And that bloke could bore for England! He also drank lager, which didn't exactly inspire confidence.
The fundamental idea behind the scheme is great, but unfortunately it seems to fall down in the execution.
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Reply to
PeterE
In message , PeterE >> >> I wonder if he'd like to visit Lancaster. We've been singularly >> unsuccessful in getting any of the local Cask Marque assessors to >> come to talk to us. Everyone thinks it would be a fascinating talk >> but they're very rel;uctant to even reply to us. > >We once had a Cask Marque inspector talk to our local CAMRA branch. And that >bloke could bore for England! He also drank lager, which didn't exactly >inspire confidence. > >The fundamental idea behind the scheme is great, but unfortunately it seems >to fall down in the execution. >
I used to be totally prejudiced against CM because of the beer quality in the pubs they had 'approved' in my local area. As the scheme has spread I have changed my opinion .
If a landlord was capable of consistently keeping beer in a reasonable condition before accreditation then the beer quality can improve by following CM recommendations/changes.
If the landlord/manager was incapable of keeping a beer in good condition before accreditation then very little changes with being award a CM. The main difference being that you get cold, rather than warm, vinegar.
I still wonder how a brand new pub belonging to a large chain can display a CM plaque a few weeks after opening and was selling beer in poor condition at the time. Surely a CM should indicate that the beer sold is of good quality and not 'has the potential to be good because the manager has demonstrated that he has done it before - in a different pub with different cellar staff''? -- Alan mailto:news2me_a_2003@amacleod.clara.co.uk
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Alan
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Reply to
Alan
> Surely a CM should indicate that the beer > sold is of good quality and not 'has the potential to be good because > the manager has demonstrated that he has done it before - in a different > pub with different cellar staff''?
That's the real issue.
In many cases the cellarman and the manager are different people and provided the a good cellarman can keep the manager out of the cellar the beer is fine no matter which "manager" is on duty for that session.
Perhaps the key is to get CM to remove the award when the cellarman changes.
After all removing it with the manager would mean several changes of CM labelling per week (or a couple a day in some pubs)
-- Steve Pampling
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Steve Pampling
Reply to
Steven Pampling
> > We got Mike Parker, a cask marque inspector, who is also brewer at > Hesket Newmarket brewery to talk to one of our meetings. He was > really interesting and worthwhile. Certainly reassured us about their > standards etc. > > Lancaster wouldn't be all that far down the M6 for him. Try him!
Thanks for that Chris! We'll get in touch with him.
-- Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
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* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *
--------------------------------------------------------- Libeskind takes metaphors from fractal mathematics, crystalline geology, plant morphology and so on, and realises them with zigzags, skewed spaces and narrow slashes of glazing and industrial materials - even though the most intense experience its users will ever confront will be someone's failure to top up the coffee machine.
Keith Miller
--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster  http://www.loobynet.com
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Reply to
loobyloo
> > > Harvey Milne of Cask Marque gave a talk on the subject of 'The Perfect > > Pint' at the Scottish Brewing Archive yesterday: > > > >
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> > > > I wonder if he'd like to visit Lancaster. We've been singularly > unsuccessful in getting any of the local Cask Marque assessors to come to > talk to us. Everyone thinks it would be a fascinating talk but they're > very rel;uctant to even reply to us. > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue CM > in my mind.
When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to myself "another crap pint".
Reply to
RolandRB
rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue CM > > in my mind. > > When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to myself > "another crap pint".
do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub you've been to has sold beer in poor nick?
in general, my recent experience of Spoons beer quality has been OK (nice pint of Beartown Ambeardextrous in Birkenhead last week, cheap too) my main complaint is the mildly plastic atmosphere in most of them. cheers MikeMcG
Reply to
MikeMcG
> rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message >>> Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a >>> scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to >>> devalue CM in my mind. >> >> When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to >> myself "another crap pint". > > do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub > you've been to has sold beer in poor nick? > > in general, my recent experience of Spoons beer quality has been OK > (nice pint of Beartown Ambeardextrous in Birkenhead last week, cheap > too) my main complaint is the mildly plastic atmosphere in most of > them.
To my dismay I see that (at least the three I visit regularly) wetherspoons have now added extra teats & sparklers to "enhance" the head on the beer. As this takes an age to settle I guess the idea is that they get less requests for topups.
Reply to
Mike Jones
In message , MikeMcG writes > >in general, my recent experience of Spoons beer quality has been OK >(nice pint of Beartown Ambeardextrous in Birkenhead last week, cheap >too) my main complaint is the mildly plastic atmosphere in most of >them.
In Henley (on Thames) they'd got pumpclips for Brakspears Ordinary and Loddon Hoppit. They told us we couldn't have Brakspears so we ordered Hoppit.
Guess what came out of the pipe?
-- Sue ]|(:)
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Sue  ]|(:)
Reply to
Sue
> rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message > > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > > > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue CM > > > in my mind. > > > > When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to myself > > "another crap pint". > > do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub > you've been to has sold beer in poor nick? Mainly in the same Wetherspoons but also elsewhere. I find it annoying that my "guarantee" of a good pint is nothing of the sort. > in general, my recent experience of Spoons beer quality has been OK > (nice pint of Beartown Ambeardextrous in Birkenhead last week, cheap > too) my main complaint is the mildly plastic atmosphere in most of > them. > cheers > MikeMcG
Reply to
RolandRB
> > rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message > > > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > > > > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue CM > > > > in my mind. > > > > > > When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to myself > > > "another crap pint". > > > > do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub > > you've been to has sold beer in poor nick? > > Mainly in the same Wetherspoons but also elsewhere. I find it annoying > that my "guarantee" of a good pint is nothing of the sort.
have you tried complaining to 'Spoons HQ &/or CM?
(I bet your letter won't get printed in 'Spoons in-house mag tho ;~)
just out of interest - why do you go back? if i had that many bad experiences (which weren't resolved by decent staff) i would take my thirst & money elsewhere. cheers MikeMcG
Reply to
MikeMcG
> > > rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message > > > > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > > > > > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to devalue CM > > > > > in my mind. > > > > > > > > When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to myself > > > > "another crap pint". > > > > > > do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub > > > you've been to has sold beer in poor nick? > > > > Mainly in the same Wetherspoons but also elsewhere. I find it annoying > > that my "guarantee" of a good pint is nothing of the sort. > > have you tried complaining to 'Spoons HQ &/or CM? > > (I bet your letter won't get printed in 'Spoons in-house mag tho ;~) > > just out of interest - why do you go back? if i had that many bad > experiences (which weren't resolved by decent staff) i would take my > thirst & money elsewhere. > cheers > MikeMcG
I have almost given up expecting to find a good pint of real ale in London - at least semi-locally. I have a place in Walthamstow - what are my options? The Anchor and Hope is under new management so that's the Pride gone. The Cricketers is very variable for McMullens. There are a few places in Leyton that try to serve real ale but it is generally not good. I'll get a decent pint maybe only one in ten times. When I go to a 'Spoons these days, like the Drum or the Walnut Tree, I quickly end up drinking bottles of Kozel.
And talking of bottled beers, these are generally not as good as they used to be. And some beers have been destroyed, like Abbot Ale, which used to be a brilliant pint, both draught and from a bottle.
And as for CAMRA, they are not going to earn anough money to keep going if they are honest and say that no pubs in their area can serve a decent pint. And that real ale is now made in huge factories rather than brewed in local breweries using local water and traditional techniques and that the taste of that brew has been lost.
I am in Munich, most of the time and it didn't take me long to spot that Augustiner is by far the best beer here. I drink it in a place where they serve the Helles out of a wooden barrel. And it is a "real" wooden barrel. Made of wood and with wood on the inside as well. The beer is filtered, which I am quite glad of, as that barrel gets rolled along the floor before being lifted up and having a tap smashed into it. The beer tastes fantastic, to me. And there is a beergarden called the Augustiner Keller (not open now as it is freezing cold here) where they serve the better Edelstoff. And that comes out of wooden barrels as well. It is sublime. And there are better beers than that if you are prepared to travel - and travelling is cheap here. I went to N├╝rnburg where there are some small breweries and had a pint of Helles in a place called the Altstadt brewery up near the castle. Again filtered beer but it was out of this world.
When I come back to England then what I get served in a pub in London or now drink out of a bottle is a great disappointment to me. Still, I know two good pubs in Weymouth where I will be at Christmas. A town that once had 80 pubs and a Devenish brewery with most of the pubs good - they now have two good pubs. Bit of a shame to me.
Reply to
RolandRB
> And as for CAMRA, they are not going to earn anough money to keep > going if they are honest and say that no pubs in their area can serve > a decent pint. And that real ale is now made in huge factories rather > than brewed in local breweries using local water and traditional > techniques and that the taste of that brew has been lost.
I don't understand why you link Camra's funding with the lack of a decent pint - can you explain?
-- Christine Ramsbottom
--
Christine Ramsbottom
Reply to
Christine
mikemcg6363@my-deja.com (MikeMcG) wrote in message > > > rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message > > > > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > > > > > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to > > > > > devalue CM in my mind. > > > > > > > > When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to > > > > myself "another crap pint". > > > > > > do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub > > > you've been to has sold beer in poor nick? > > > > Mainly in the same Wetherspoons but also elsewhere. I find it annoying > > that my "guarantee" of a good pint is nothing of the sort. > > have you tried complaining to 'Spoons HQ &/or CM? > > (I bet your letter won't get printed in 'Spoons in-house mag tho ;~) > > just out of interest - why do you go back? if i had that many bad > experiences (which weren't resolved by decent staff) i would take my > thirst & money elsewhere. > cheers > MikeMcG
an easy way to get in touch with CM might be here -
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if you do, let us know how you get on.
I'd not heard about ther rumour that Spoons have a blanket scaled-down inspection, I'm going to ask CM about it - will post if I hear anything back. cheers MikeMcG
Reply to
MikeMcG
I got a response from CM's Alastair MacNaught re the rumours about Spoons & Cask Marque accreditation. It doesn't answer why some drinkers still regularly receive poor pints in CM accredited pubs tho. He said he is happy to answer anyone else's concerns re CM & beer quality in Wetherspoon's pubs, contact via the CM website or cheers MikeMcG copy of email - "Hi Mike
Thanks for your email. As usual with most rumours it is not true!
Wetherspoons have absolutely no concessions and are treated no differently from everyone else. The reason this rumour was probably started was because no licensee name goes on the certificate in the pub. This option is available to any Cask Marque member and the reason Wetherspoons do it is because they wish to provide credit for all the members of the team in their pubs. However, the award has still gone to the licensee/manager.
We have had comments that Wetherspoons pubs know when we are coming - the only reason this can be is if one pub phones another pub around the corner to say that we have just visited them and are likely to be on our way to see them. But if the beer is poor it is going to fail whether they know we are coming or not and we try and find ways around these problems.
They certainly do not have blanket accreditation. They put forward most of their pubs for the scheme but there are a fair number which are not accredited.
Hope this is useful.
Best Regards Alastair Macnaught Operations Manager
Cask Marque Trust"
Reply to
MikeMcG
> mikemcg6363@my-deja.com (MikeMcG) wrote in message > > > > rolandberry@hotmail.com (RolandRB) wrote in message > > > > > > Is it true that Wetherspoons are given a blanket Cask Marque with a > > > > > > scaled-down inspection? Because if they are, then that seems to > > > > > > devalue CM in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > When I see that badge on a beer pump my heart sinks as I think to > > > > > myself "another crap pint". > > > > > > > > do you go to the same crap W'spoons? or do you mean that every CM pub > > > > you've been to has sold beer in poor nick? > > > > > > Mainly in the same Wetherspoons but also elsewhere. I find it annoying > > > that my "guarantee" of a good pint is nothing of the sort. > > > > have you tried complaining to 'Spoons HQ &/or CM? > > > > (I bet your letter won't get printed in 'Spoons in-house mag tho ;~) > > > > just out of interest - why do you go back? if i had that many bad > > experiences (which weren't resolved by decent staff) i would take my > > thirst & money elsewhere. > > cheers > > MikeMcG > > an easy way to get in touch with CM might be here - >
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> if you do, let us know how you get on. > > I'd not heard about ther rumour that Spoons have a blanket scaled-down > inspection, I'm going to ask CM about it - will post if I hear > anything back. > cheers > MikeMcG
One of the things that puzzles me about the Cask Marque scheme is that when a beer gets near the end of the barrel it is drinkable but certainly not a perfect pint. What are members of this scheme supposed to do? Pour it away? I used to drink Pride in the bar inside Marlybone station when I worked out that way and it was perfect 2 times out of 3. This is what I would expect from a real ale unless it had been filtered (does filtering it stop it from being a real ale by definition?). So I had no complaints when I got the poorer one of the three. I would just not have another that day and would wait until the following day.
Their inspection regimen in London can not be that thorough as I do not regard the presence of their badge on a pump any guarantee of a good pint or even a better than normal one. Maybe they should check the 'Spoons Walnut Tree in Leytonstone themselves and see if they get a good pint even out of one of the Cask Marque pumps on any day in a week. I haven't been there for a month but I am sure nothing will have changed.
Reply to
RolandRB
> One of the things that puzzles me about the Cask Marque scheme is that > when a beer gets near the end of the barrel it is drinkable but > certainly not a perfect pint.
Sometimes but not always. I've had some fantastic pints that were the last pint in the cask. Some beers seem to finish quickly without deterioration.
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Brett
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Brett
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Brett...

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