Insanity of the wine industry

Lieber Herr Pronay - das ist wohl disgusting?

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:58:04 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

Yup.

And the hands are fascinating, if you're into the delights of the outer reaches of the improbable.

As for the hexagon squeeze, it is defined as a double guard squeeze in which each of the three menaces is protected by _both_ opponents.

In the example given, South leads the A of clubs and West must discard the spade. North discards a diamond and East is squeezed in three suits. Once West discards his spade, East is caught in a standard guard squeeze.

North S Q H A J D x C -

WEST EAST S K S A H Kx H Q D Q D Kx C - C -

South S - H x D A J C A

Talking of the HH, I should say that my Granny, a very innocent lady born in the Victorian Era to a _highly_ respectable evangelical family annouced with great pride when she married. "There!!! I'm no longer a Hogg, I'm a Hoare."

Mike,

Im not disputing the fact that it is possible to harvest at 36 brix,, such as an "ice wine". But if you ferment a juice at 36brix you will end up with a very sweet wine in upwards of 7% residual sugar (the chemist in this forum can come up with the exact percentage better than I can).

I didnt think we were talking about dessert wines or ice wines.

Well it seems like Ian and you guys have a disagreement that needs to be worked out. Keep me out of it and let me know your conclusions.

I have asked chemists and experienced winemakers about this and their unanimous answer is that it is an uwarranted generalization. This does not preclude "acidity adjustments" from time to time. Whether this is good, bad, or indifferent, is not the issue here. Your absolutisms are. I have been in this business long enough to know to avoid the use of absolutes such as "always", "never", etc.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Vincent,

I am writing this very slow, because I now know that you are very slow on the uptake.

In your very first post, you wrote thus..

"anyone who has a beginners knowledge of winemaking knows that acid additions are currently practiced by just about (every) wine producing nation in the world"

Since then, you have been told in no uncertain terms that this is simply not so in Germany, Austria, much of France, New Zealand and Tokaji.

As to your latest gem...

You are a clown - the aforementioned Hoare, Pronay et al are in total agreement - tis you who cannot remember from which side you are arguing.

And do you take any notice whatsoever of other posters statements of ct - No!

Because then you would have to admit that, in reality, your experience is very limited, to a small area within the US; where life is beautiful all the time, and the sun beats down, and grapes ripen overnight and acid levels diminish so that you boost them artificially - and there you sit, festering like an ingrown toenail thinking that the whole winemaking world is the same.

Well, it ain't - as so many of your own countrymen have tried to explain.

Get a life - get off your ass and go see the real wine-world - you will then realise that you actually know 2/5 of 5/8 of bugger all!!!!!

Oh I forgot, you are the only person who has ever had a conversation with an honest French winemaker aren't you?

Hohohohohohohohohohohoho!

Oops - sorry - it's Easter isn't it!

Time to start casseroling that bunny!

I am reluctant to seemingly come in to defend someone whom I have been criticizing in earlier posts for unwarranted generalizations, and that is not my intent here. But your posting raises as many questions to me as it answers. I am by no means an expert on the regions you mention. I admit that freely and please consider my concerns in that light.

My sense is that in Germany, Austria, New Zealand, and Tokaji, "acidity adjustments" are rarely, if ever, required. But can you state categorically that they never take place under any circumstances? You use the term "much of France", suggesting that "acidity adjustments" DO take place in certain places in certain years and under certain circumstances there.

You have left out all of North America, Spain, Italy, and (with the sole exception of New Zealand) all of the Southern Hemisphere.

What am I to make of this?

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

PLEASE!!!!!,,,,

When asking them did you include my full assumption oe just this snip?

I agree with you 100%. I never said anything about absolute. Its the people who are refuting me that claim "acid additions are absolutely never done in Germany or France". Their absolutism is astonishing.

"Vincent Vega" wrote in news:mZkdc.3749$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrdny02.gnilink.net:

Actually what you said was that must at 26 Brix always needs acid correction.

hel,

Do you have releveant to the discussion to add or are you simply here to insult and troll me? All you do is say how little I know when I havent heard you say anything relevent to the drop in TA as grapes rippen.

Your are truely a pathetic creature. If you actually read anything I posted you would know that I dont work in Cali and I grow in a region that has plenty of mold.

You are a troll.

generally speaking, YES. (unless, of course, the juice is concentrated)

I never said always (dont think) but I have yet to comprehend how a balanced, stable wine can be produced without additions. Im begging you people to explain how this can be done but all i get is insults from trolls like st. helier.

I did not ask them specifically with respect to your statement. What I posted was information gleaned from numerous conversations with both groups of professionals that have taken place over a long period of time before you ever started this thread.

If I had asked them for a specific reponse to the "snip" quoted above, what more should I have asked them? In other words, what was your "full assumption"?

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Vino,, I am not sure if you are aware but the second part of the quote is not mine. You should direct the question to who made the comment. I have no clue what you are to make of it.

My posting was a response to st. helier, who quoted one of your earlier posts. Both that quote and his response to it were included in my posting. I know it gets complicated, but my mail reader does a pretty good job of sorting such things out.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Try this: and thank you for your curiousity. Please let me know their response.

Let me ask you this. A Rielsing is 13% alcohol and has a residual sugar of

2%. That means the grape needed to be harvested above 25-26 brix, to get these numbers. And in Germany, Im assuming the grapes had to hang a really long time to get this high so you know the PH is through the roof. We all know that sugar masks acidity. Therefore a wine with with residual sugar will taste less acidic. How is it possible to have a well balanced wine that is sweet,, with no acidity? And, lol, on top of that,, you have the wine bottled with a high PH, no sulfite added, no potassium sorbate, with residual sugar for yeast and bacteria to feast on.