Insanity of the wine industry

You're talking about Germany. I'm not, necessarily. I don't know where to go with this conversation.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

The Hideous Hog is indeed an icon of the bridge literature. Author Mollo occasionally uses wine as a dramatic prop in recounting HH's exploits (which are usually psychological rather than technical).

I don't happen to share Tom's enthusiasm for Mollo's writing, but I'm in a tiny minority.

I used Germany as an example because someone else (not sure who) was referring to German wines. In colder climates, it takes much longer to get grapes to 26 brix,, therefore they must hang on the vine while PH increases.

Please,, kill file me,, what are you waiting for.

Here: "Because then you would have to admit that, in reality, your experience is very limited, to a small area within the US; where life is beautiful all the time, and the sun beats down, and grapes ripen overnight and acid levels diminish "

If you knew anything about the US wine regions you would know that your description only applies to areas in California. Obviously you dont know this.

No. I said I have made over a million gallons of wine.

For about 20 years.

Do you read my posts with your rage and hateful feelings or with your mind. I never said I make millions of gallons of wine per year. About 40% of our fruit is estate grown.

I dont give a rats ass if you believe me. I am still waiting for the kill file.

You make broad generalizations and, when you are called on them, you fall back on specifics. The above is a perfect example. This is why no one takes you seriously here.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

snip rest of Vincent's reply

Vino

I must admit that I am probably one of the least knowledgeable about winemaking here, but earlier, I was objecting to the insinuation that all wines would be

13% alcohol. The off-dry, sweet and dessert wines of Germany come in at 10% alcohol and under. (I hope Vincent is aware of this.) The fermentation is stopped early, and the wines have residual sugar and high acid. Someone could clarify for me the typical brix (sweetness) of the must for the German Kabinetts and Spatlesen.

Your point about Washington state and ripeness compared to Germany is well taken. I believe that the WA off dry Rieslings (eg Ch. St. Michelle, Hogue) have alcohol levels of 12 or more.

One minor observation I make about latitute however... New York's Finger Lakes has higher acid wines than those of Washington, and it lies at 43 degrees, N (south of Washington). The cool maritime climate promotes a higher acidity and much less ripening than arid eastern WA.

But aside from that minor issue, your points are well taken.

So, a valid question is... What is the brix of a typical German off dry Riesling? And what is the great destoyer of acid? Is it is high brix and high alcohol, as Vincent suggests? Is it the rate of ripening (cool vs. warm climate)?

If anyone, including Vincent, can answer my questions, I think some of these issues re acidity may be clarified.

Thanks

Tom Schellberg

More or less.

I did not mean to suggest that latitude, isolated from everything else, is destiny. For proof of this, look at Santa Barbara, where the "cool climate" grape Pinot Noir is grown successfully. Santa Barbara is about the same latitude as north Africa. In the case of Santa Barbara, cool ocean currents and unusual topography trump latitude. Although my heart is with Columbia Valley reisling, I must admit that I have had some terrific reislings from the Finger Lakes area.

I'm going to defer to others on this one. German wines are classified according to the sugar concentration of the grapes at harvest. This corresponds only indirectly to the sugar content of the wines. This is definitely not my area of expertise.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

has added sulfites to the wine,, or wine to

Thanks for clarifying Vino. That seems to jibe with the statement about the unstable Morgon (beaujolais).

Tom Schellberg

What's the minimum brix for German Kabinett or Spatlesen? Are they 26 brix?

Are high alcohol (13%) and high brix together the destroyers of acid? I thought it was ripening that reduced acid levels? The German wines seem to have high brix, but low alcohol.

Tom Schellberg

Acidity is reduced as ripening increases. It is a fairly linear process.

I never suggested that high brix and high alcohol destroys acid. High brix and high alcohol is a good representation of how long the grapes were left to hang/how late the harvest was.

You said you dont know much about winemaking so I will explain the basics incase you might be confused. Yeast eat sugar --- the by-product is alcohol (among other things) A dry wine is a wine fermented to 0 residual sugar (not sure if wine drinkers have the same definition) If a wine starts with about 22 brix and the yeast eat all of the sugar you will end up with 12% alcohol. I hope everyone here is in agreement to this:) If an off dry wine has 2% residual sugar (and no sugar was added) and a 12% alcohol it would have had to start at about 26 brix. A wine with 2% residual and 10% alcohol probably started at about 24 brix. A wine at 14.5 % alcohol and no residual sugar would start at about 27 brix.

>

What are you talking about? One of us is miscomunicating and I am afraid I dont see your point. my appoligies.

I have no clue.

Someone asked about German Kabinett, for Riesling you need at least

18-19 depending on region.

To get 13+2 potential alcohol, you need 23 Brix. That would be a Kabinett. No particularly long hanging.

At 25-26 brix you are already at the Auslese level. I have never tasted an Auslese that lacked acidity. And acidification is not allowed on QmP. I don't believe they need to acidify, if anything, they might want to deacidify...

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

I recently arrived on this computer, a little tired, and what follows below is from memory. (You've only mere integrity on that.)

Is Dahl's "Matter of Taste" the story where the phony drawing-room expert, under an important wager he has contrived,"discerns" the Bordeaux (very slowly and Hitchcockianly with a river and a bridge etc.) from what turns out ultimately to be a good look at the b*ttle (don't want to spoil it for anyone)? If not then I don't know it. (Though the one I do remember is not without parallels in the contemporary US, if i may say). (Other and wiser lands, of course, lack such defects. :-)

Did you read Dahl's interview in (I think it's called) Bin Ends at the end of _Decanter,_ about 1990? Very articulate on the changes in the UK consumer wine market since the 1950s. I have it readily on file (on paper) and could quote.

I don't recognize the Sayers story by title, though I do appreciate Sayers much and read most of her stories with much pleasure, she was surely the most scholarly of the entre-deux-guerres British detective fiction writers and thy mention hath earned thee less yet, less even yet, than Pavlov's dogs got: A quotation!

-- Knowing that in country places it is always considered proper to see the church, Lord Peter expressed his eagerness to do so. "It's always open nowadays," said the magistrate, leading the way to the west entrance. ... He pushed the door open. A curious, stuffy waft of stale incense, damp, and stoves rushed out at them as they entered -- a kind of concentrated extract of Church of England.

-- Dorothy Sayers, "The undignified melodrama of the bone of contention," in _Lord Peter,_ Harper & Row, 1987 (ISBN 0060913800). Not from online.

("Arf!")