Insanity of the wine industry

You're talking about Germany. I'm not, necessarily. I don't know where to go with this conversation.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Finally, something has penetrated that skull of yours - my sole purpose of being is to be your worst nightmare.

I take a great deal of delight in seeing a true troll squirm under the weight of their own generalisations and innuendo.

As you try to deflect attention from many of the idiotic assumptions you spout forth as gospel, you are in grave danger of disappearing up your own fundamental orifice.

Two points (before I also kill file you!!!)

Where in the above statement to I assert that you are in California?

Previously, you have stated that you are a winemaker - making millions of gallons - Right?

Now, you are a grower!

Make up your mind - to make millions of gallons of wine, one must grow thousands of tons of grapes - it is stretching credibility just too far for one to believe that you do both, on the scale you claim.

Are you mistaken? Are you stretching the truth? Or are you simply a legend in your own mind?

Now, it is Good Friday, it is a most pleasant autumn day and it is just on lunchtime.

We are bar-b-quing some chicken breasts to serve with a simple garden fresh salad.

Our wine choice today is magnum of Trimbach Cuvée Frederic-Emile Riesling

1990, which although not regarded as the perfect accompaniment for chicken, is one of my favourite luncheon, salad wines.

Good bye Vincenza, have a great trolling life.

Alexander Andrew St.Helier-Bourke (Lord St.Helier) Auckland, New Zealand snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com

The Hideous Hog is indeed an icon of the bridge literature. Author Mollo occasionally uses wine as a dramatic prop in recounting HH's exploits (which are usually psychological rather than technical).

I don't happen to share Tom's enthusiasm for Mollo's writing, but I'm in a tiny minority.

I used Germany as an example because someone else (not sure who) was referring to German wines. In colder climates, it takes much longer to get grapes to 26 brix,, therefore they must hang on the vine while PH increases.

Please,, kill file me,, what are you waiting for.

Here: "Because then you would have to admit that, in reality, your experience is very limited, to a small area within the US; where life is beautiful all the time, and the sun beats down, and grapes ripen overnight and acid levels diminish "

If you knew anything about the US wine regions you would know that your description only applies to areas in California. Obviously you dont know this.

No. I said I have made over a million gallons of wine.

For about 20 years.

Do you read my posts with your rage and hateful feelings or with your mind. I never said I make millions of gallons of wine per year. About 40% of our fruit is estate grown.

I dont give a rats ass if you believe me. I am still waiting for the kill file.

You make broad generalizations and, when you are called on them, you fall back on specifics. The above is a perfect example. This is why no one takes you seriously here.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

snip rest of Vincent's reply

Vino

I must admit that I am probably one of the least knowledgeable about winemaking here, but earlier, I was objecting to the insinuation that all wines would be

13% alcohol. The off-dry, sweet and dessert wines of Germany come in at 10% alcohol and under. (I hope Vincent is aware of this.) The fermentation is stopped early, and the wines have residual sugar and high acid. Someone could clarify for me the typical brix (sweetness) of the must for the German Kabinetts and Spatlesen.

Your point about Washington state and ripeness compared to Germany is well taken. I believe that the WA off dry Rieslings (eg Ch. St. Michelle, Hogue) have alcohol levels of 12 or more.

One minor observation I make about latitute however... New York's Finger Lakes has higher acid wines than those of Washington, and it lies at 43 degrees, N (south of Washington). The cool maritime climate promotes a higher acidity and much less ripening than arid eastern WA.

But aside from that minor issue, your points are well taken.

So, a valid question is... What is the brix of a typical German off dry Riesling? And what is the great destoyer of acid? Is it is high brix and high alcohol, as Vincent suggests? Is it the rate of ripening (cool vs. warm climate)?

If anyone, including Vincent, can answer my questions, I think some of these issues re acidity may be clarified.

Thanks

Tom Schellberg

More or less.

I did not mean to suggest that latitude, isolated from everything else, is destiny. For proof of this, look at Santa Barbara, where the "cool climate" grape Pinot Noir is grown successfully. Santa Barbara is about the same latitude as north Africa. In the case of Santa Barbara, cool ocean currents and unusual topography trump latitude. Although my heart is with Columbia Valley reisling, I must admit that I have had some terrific reislings from the Finger Lakes area.

I'm going to defer to others on this one. German wines are classified according to the sugar concentration of the grapes at harvest. This corresponds only indirectly to the sugar content of the wines. This is definitely not my area of expertise.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

has added sulfites to the wine,, or wine to

Thanks for clarifying Vino. That seems to jibe with the statement about the unstable Morgon (beaujolais).

Tom Schellberg

What's the minimum brix for German Kabinett or Spatlesen? Are they 26 brix?

Are high alcohol (13%) and high brix together the destroyers of acid? I thought it was ripening that reduced acid levels? The German wines seem to have high brix, but low alcohol.

Tom Schellberg

Acidity is reduced as ripening increases. It is a fairly linear process.

I never suggested that high brix and high alcohol destroys acid. High brix and high alcohol is a good representation of how long the grapes were left to hang/how late the harvest was.

You said you dont know much about winemaking so I will explain the basics incase you might be confused. Yeast eat sugar --- the by-product is alcohol (among other things) A dry wine is a wine fermented to 0 residual sugar (not sure if wine drinkers have the same definition) If a wine starts with about 22 brix and the yeast eat all of the sugar you will end up with 12% alcohol. I hope everyone here is in agreement to this:) If an off dry wine has 2% residual sugar (and no sugar was added) and a 12% alcohol it would have had to start at about 26 brix. A wine with 2% residual and 10% alcohol probably started at about 24 brix. A wine at 14.5 % alcohol and no residual sugar would start at about 27 brix.

>

What are you talking about? One of us is miscomunicating and I am afraid I dont see your point. my appoligies.

I have no clue.

"Vincent Vega" wrote in news:d%ndc.4093$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrdny02.gnilink.net:

the following is from the 1989 German harvest

in relation to acid levels you all tell me what it means with the brix The 1989 Vintage in Germany Overview: "In good company": 1949 - 1959 - 1969 - 1979 - 1989 - An interesting series of vintages that spanned the last half century. An attempt to put numbers on or to compare 1989 might be a little premature but early tastings suggest a superb Riesling vintage that will detract little from the above company and will surely surpass both 1969 and 1979.

After a mild winter, the new year began with a warm spring. Warm and sunny March had buds sprouting by 4/11 almost three weeks ahead of normal. April was cool and with double the normal rainfall delayed greening of the vineyards. After a hot May (50% above normal sunshine) flowering went smoothly in mid-June. By 8/20 the grapes started the ripening process. A hailstorm, in early September caused severe damage not only in Kinheim and Ürzig on the Mosel but also in Kallstadt and Ungstein in the Pfalz. September was cool and dry. The beginning of October brought the long awaited rainfall which gave the vegetation a big boost and greatly assisted botrytis formation. In the remaining warm and sunny days of October the harvest finished smoothly. It should be noted that the 1989 harvest was extremely labor intensive with a number of estates exceeding 500 hrs/ha (60% to 70% above normal) harvesting time. Not only did 1989 offer the best opportunity of the 80s to make BAs and TBAs, the last weekend in November in addition produced numerous Eisweins to top off the vintage.

1989 offers the broadest range of quality levels from QbA to TBA including Eiswein which is rare for any vintage. By contrast in 1988 the quality was pretty much centered around Spätlese and Auslese. The best wines in 1989 were made on the Saar, Ruwer and all the Rhein regions even though the middle Mosel can answer with some superb BAs and TBAs. 1989 for most areas, Graach and Wehlen on the Mosel excepted, is the best vintage of the 80s. A review of the vintage by grower follows:

Estates by region MOSEL-SAAR-RUWER

MÖNCHHOF Harvest was about 20% above normal with acid levels ranging from 8gm/l to 11gm/l. Quality breakdown is 25% QbA, 30% Kabinett, 40% Spätlese, 500 l of a superb Auslese (Erdener Treppchen) and 350 l BA Ürziger Würzgarten - it may surpass the great 1976 BA - almost 150 Öchsle at

9.2gm/l acidity).

CHRISTOFFEL-BERRES Yield was 100hl/ha in Erden and 75 hl/ha in Ürzig (there was some hail damage). The finished wines still have 8.5gm/l of mostly tartaric acid. Mr. Christoffel compares the vintage favorably to his 1975s. He likes the Spätleses better than the 1988s but prefers the 1988 Ausleses.

J.J. PRÜM Yield was 75hl/ha for an average harvest. Dr. Manfred Prüm rates the vintage a 8.5 /10. Quality breakdown is 70% QbA and Kabinett, where most of the QbAs are small declassified Kabinetts, 30% Spätlese with small amounts of very high quality Auslese, GKA and LGKA. There is also a BA and a TBA (only one in the 80s) in the Wehlener Sonnenuhr.

DR. F. WEINS-PRÜM Harvest about 30% above normal. Wines with very good acid structure with Spätleses at over 9gm/l acidity in finished wines. The Waldracher wines are especially fine - better than even 88. First vintage in Graacher Domprobst since the replanting brought a superb GKA (300 l, at 105 Öchsle and 8.4 gm/l acidity).

S.A. PRÜM Yield was 88hl/ha or about 30% above normal. The Estate Riesling is declassified Kabinett. At this early stage we prefer 89 over 88 at S.A. Prüm which is not normally the case in Wehlen. Some very fine Ausleses, GKA and BA (137 Öchsle - could have more acidity - wait and see). The Graacher Kabinetts have superb acid structure.

Wwe. DR. H. THANISCH At 90 hl/ha yield was a little higher than in '88. It was mostly a Kabinett and Spätlese vintage with over 9gm/l acidity in the finished wines. There were also some QbA, Ausleses and to top off the vintage a BA and TBA both in the Bernkasteler Doctor. Thanisch continues on the comeback trail and the '89 will only solidify its positions as one of the better estates on the middle Mosel.

FRITZ HAAG Yield was above average at 80 hl/ha. Wilhelm Haag rates the vintage 9/10 and compares the young wines to his 1975s and 1953s. High praise indeed. I personally rate the vintage 9.5/10 and found the young wines exceptionally balanced, explosive fruit on the palate with 9.5 to 9.8 gm/l acidity in the finished wines. Production was 20% QbA (declassified Kabinett and Spätlese), 40% Kabinett, 25% Spätlese and 15% Auslese, GKA, LGKA and the crowning achievement, a TBA at over 200 Öchsle.

MILZ - LAURENTIUSHOF At 75hl/ha this was an average harvest for quantity but a near great harvest for quality. Best wines of the 80s. There was good ripeness with superb acid structure with approximately 15% Estate Riesling (mostly declassified Kabinett), 15% Kabinett, 35% Spätlese and 32% Auslese. Rest is 600 liter BA (Leiterchen at 140 Öchsle with 10.5gm/l acidity), 250 l TBA (Apotheke at 178 Öchsle) and 400 l BA quality Eiswein at 140 Öchsle with 14 gm/l acidity.

KARTHÄUSERHOF Possibly the finest vintage since 1959. Not only did the wines get very ripe but there are terrific acids to go with the fruit. Yield was significantly above normal. There was a broad spectrum of quality levels from QbA, Kabinett, Spätlese, Auslese, including GKA, to 600 l BA (128 Öchsle) and 150 l TBA (180 + Öchsle) and Eiswein.

PIEDMONT With 110 hl/ha the yield was over 50% above normal with superb acid structure in the must, almost 90% tartaric. Klaus Piedmont who is now in charge, after this father passed away in '89, considers '89 to be the best vintage since 1976. Extremely labor intensive harvest. Spent 510 hours/ha versus a normal harvest time of 320 hrs/ha. Quality breakdown is 15% QbA (again declassified Kabinett), 35% Kabinett, 35% Spätlese, the rest Auslese (with two Fuders at 110 Öchsle) and BA (600 l that also includes the only TBA harvested in the 80s).

von HÖVEL Yield was 76 hl/ha which is slightly above normal. Eberhard von Kunow rates the vintage slightly above '75 (with more botrytis) but not as good as '71. Very good acid structure; up to 80% tartaric acid. Quality breakdown is 0% QbA, 30% Kabinett, 60% Spätlese and 10% Auslese, BA (Hütte at 135 Öchsle) and Eiswein (Hütte).

EGON MÜLLER-SCHARZHOF / LE GALLAIS

70 hl/ha yield with 100% predicate wines. Small quantities of Kabinett may be declassified for Estate Riesling, 30% Kabinett, 60% Spätlese and 10% Auslese and up. There are BAs and TBAs at both Scharzhof and Le Gallais and Eisweins at the Scharzhof only. Again superb acids with up to 80% tartaric. By far the best vintage of the 80s. similar to 1971 and 1975.

DR. FISCHER

110 hl/ha or almost 40% above normal. At the beginning of the harvest the must acids were 12 to 13 gm/l and towards the end were still 10 gm/l. Mr. Fischer likens the vintage to his 1975s. Quality breakdown is 20% QbA, 30% Kabinett and 49% Spätlese. There are two Fuders of GKA, 800 liters BA with 9.5 gm/l acidity and 1000 l Eiswein (126 to 176 Öchsle at 18 gm/l acidity).

ZILLIKEN Even with a way above average yield, 100 hl/ha, the quality will be very good. The dry period in the summer caused significant dry damage and the harvest was very labor intensive. There is only 8% QbA with the rest predicate wines. There are some superb Ausleses including a LGKA (BA quality) and two Eisweins - lethal weapons '89. Hanno Zilliken compares the vintage to 1975.

SCHLOSS SAARSTEIN Yield was 90 hl/ha with quality like 1971. With the '89 vintage Christian Ebert is starting a program were half the vintage is offered as Estate Riesling which in '89 will all be declassified Kabinett. There are also 30 Fuders of Kabinett, 3 Fuders Spätlese plus Auslese, GKA and LGKA. 300 l BA (135 Öchsle), 150 l TBA (170 to 190 Öchsle at 12 gm/l acidity) and 150 l Eiswein (170 to 190 Öchsle at 18 gm/l acidity).

BERT SIMON Bert Simon calls '89 the best vintage since he's acquired the von Schorlemer properties in '68. Yield was only 76 hl/ha because Simon only tied one bow on the vine instead of the usual two. This was exactly the right thing to do in '89. The wines break down to 28% Kabinett, 30% Spätlese, 40% Auslese and 2% BA and TBA! Not only do the wines have very ripe, botrytised fruit but also terrific acids for this ripeness. A vintage of the century for this estate!

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RHEINGAU

LANGWERTH VON SIMMERN At 95 hl/ha the harvest was 20% above normal. Best vintage of the eighties. Over 80% predicate wines with 25% Spätleses and 3% Auseses, BAs and TBAs. Ausleses were produced in the Eltviller Sonnenberg, Hattenheimer Mannberg and Nussbrunnen. BAs in the Eltviller Sonnenberg, Rauenthaler Baiken, Hattenheimer Mannberg and Nussbrunnen and TBA's in the Hattenheimer Mannberg and Nussbrunnen and the Erbacher Marcobrunn (190 Öchsle and 16.5 gm./l acidity).

GEORG BREUER Best vintage since 1971. The harvest was very labor intensive. It began

9/14 and was complete 10/22. Yield was 64 hl/ha. All wine below 78 Öchsle will be offered as QbA. All wines through Spätlese will be offered in the dry style only. The Ausleses, BA (Bischofsberg at 133 Öchsle and 8.8 gm/l acidity) and TBA (Berg Rottland at 183 Öchsle and 11 gm/l) will be offered in the fruity style.

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PFALZ

PFEFFINGEN Because of severe hail damage yield was barely half of normal. Only predicate wines were made. because of a dire need for Kabinett wines the harvest was started early and nothing higher than Auslese was picked. The acid structure in these wines is superb. For example, finished Kabinetts have 9.5 gm/l acidity. Please reserve your Kabinetts early for they will surely be sold out before year end 1990.

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FRANKEN

WIRSCHING Yield was 20% above normal with very ripe fruit and good acid structure (lots of tartaric acid). Riesling from 84 to 87 Öchsle in the Julius Echter Berg and Kronsberg will all be offered as Kabinett wines. For the Riesling variety 1988 was the better vintage. Silvaner will be 85% QbA and 15% Kabinett. Scheurebe brought QbA, Kabinett and

Spätlese. Traminer was harvested as an Auslese only at 108 Öchsle. Pinot Gris started at Auslese; there was also a BA and TBA (176 Öchsle at over

9 gm/l acidity). Müller -Thurgau: QbA and Kabinett only.

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NAHE

CRUSIUS Yield was 10% above normal, with mustweights ranging from 74 to 114 Öchsle. Peter and his father did not attempt to make BA's or TBA's. It simply is not their style. They prefer good Ausleses to the really sweet wines. All must below 79 Öchsle was chaptalized to 90-92 and becomes QbA. Botrytis is very noticeable in the Ausleses but also in some Spätleses. Must acids ranged from 8 gm/l to 1.3gm/l. The harvest was complete on 10/27/89. Best vintage of the '80s decade.

SCHLOSSGUT DIEL Even with 20% above normal yield the 1989 wines will be superb. Quality breakdown is 17% QbA (Pinot Gris and Pinot Blanc), 25% Kabinett, 25% Spätlese and 33% Auslese. Harvest from 9/25 to 10/13. Rieslings have acid levels of 10 gm/l, even the Pinot Gris (the finest I've ever tasted at Diel) has 9.2 gm/l acidity. The acids are very ripe i.e. lots of tartaric acid. In 1989, Schlossgut Diel will offer a fruity style wine, an Auslese from the Dorsheimer Goldloch (108 Öchsle, 10.8 gm/l acidity and 88 gm/l residual sugar).

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BADEN

SALWEY Yield was 10% above normal. One of the best vintages of the eighties. Riesling - 2/3 Kabinett and 1/3 Spätlese. Pinot Gris from Kabinett to TBA (160 + Öchsle at 9.5 gm/l acidity). Muskateller Spätlese, will probably sell as Kabinett. Silvaner, Pinot Blanc and Gewürztraminer: Kabinett and Spätlese, Müller-Thurgau: Kabinett and Spätlese but will sell as Kabinett only. Spätburgunder (Pinot Noir) from QbA to Spätlese and the Pinot Noir Blanc to Auslese. Harvest was complete 10/23/89.

DR. HEGER Yield was 70 hl/ha or about 30% above normal. Joachim judges the vintage a 9.5/10. He compares the whites to the 1975s and the red wines possibly the best ever!! Silvaner mostly Kabinett but 10% Spätlese from a plot of over 40 year old vines. Scheurebe: 1000 l Auslese, 1000 l BA (145 Öchsle) and 280 l TBA (200 + Öchsle at 16.6 gm/l acidity fabulous wine)! Traminer: 1000 l Auslese (119 Öchsle), Gewürztraminer: 520 l BA (140 Öchsle) Müller-Thurgau all Kabinett. Riesling: 600 l of fabulous Spätlese from the Winklerberg. Pinot Gris and Pinot Blanc Kabinett and Spätlese. Exceptional Muskateller, Spätlese only. Pinot Noir and Pinot Noir Blanc great!

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WÜRTTEMBURG

GRAF ADELMANN Yield was 15% above normal, very good acid structure and high pH with the red wines. Harvest began 9/20 and was complete by the last week in October. Riesling yield was 60 hl/ha and brought 1/3 Kabinett (85 Öchsle), 1/3 Spätlese (91 Öchsle) and 1/3 Auslese (102 Öchsle). Traminer came in at 90 Öchsle with 70 hl /ha. Could be offered as Kabinett or Spätlese. Muskateller - only 30 hl/ha at 1/2 Kabinett and 1/2 Spätlese. Kerner - only Spätlese at 95 Öchsle. Lemberger - only Spätlese. Samtrot only Spätlese at 90+ Öchsle. Clevner QbA through Auslese at 100+ Öchsle. Trollinger QbA only. One of the best vintages in the last 15 years.

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RHEINHESSEN

GUNDERLOCH Because of the unusually smaller tban normal yields the 1989 harvest at

64 hl/ha was almost 40% above normal. Breakdown of quality levels is 27.2% QbA, 17.5% Kabinett, 41.6% Spätlese and 13.7% Auslese with 150 l TBA at 160+ Öchsle - first Clever Riesling TBA produced at Gunderloch. Acid levels for Riesling from 8.9 to 10.3 gm/l, for Silvaner 7.7 to 8.8 gm/l and Müller-Thurgau 7.5 to 9.0 gm/l. Best vintage of the '80s.

Now you're talking Lord St. Helier! Trimbach is one of my personal favorites. Both the Cuvee Frederic Emile Riesling and the Clos St. Hune. A near perfect expression of Alsace fruit with terrific aging potential (must be the sulfites) and a wonderful zippy acidity (do they add acid?) that marrys so well with so many different cuisines. I will toast you good taste at our Good Friday meal by opening a bottle of 1985 Trimbach Clos St. Hune with a simple roasted Chevre salad!

Bi!!

Someone asked about German Kabinett, for Riesling you need at least

18-19 depending on region.

To get 13+2 potential alcohol, you need 23 Brix. That would be a Kabinett. No particularly long hanging.

At 25-26 brix you are already at the Auslese level. I have never tasted an Auslese that lacked acidity. And acidification is not allowed on QmP. I don't believe they need to acidify, if anything, they might want to deacidify...

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

jcoulter wrote in news:Xns94C5E6A913343225stellar@216.196.97.136:

see also the report on 1997 wines which contains this After visiting a few estates it became apparent that the streak was intact, 1997 is a fabulous vintage. The only real contrast between 1997 and other recent vintages is that very few noble sweet wines were made because the vintage had little botrytis. However, at the Estate Riesling (QbA), Kabinett, Spätlese, and Auslese level we’ve never tasted anything quite like 1997. The wines are incredibly ripe, with detailed fine fruit, and with layers and layers on the palate.

Even at this early stage, tasting the wines off the tanks / barrels, they were showing complexity and character. There is no clouding of flavors by botrytis or hard acidity, just pure, ripe, often tropical fruit.

Although total acidity is lower than in previous vintages, the key to the ‘97’s is the high levels of tartaric acidity. There is only a small amount of malic in these wines. Analysis of acid levels at Weingut Robert Weil showed over 90% tartaric acidity in the musts, yet Weil’s

1997 Kiedricher Gräfenberg Spätlese still has 10 gm/l acidity. This over abundance of tartaric acid explains the incredible ripeness we found in so many of the wines. While some estates did have acid levels at 10+ gm/l, the average acidity (for our estates) seems to lie in the 8.5 gm/l range.

Hanno Zilliken is the exception to the no botrytis rule in 1997. His was the only estate with significant amounts of botrytis. The wines are magnificent. It is one of the greatest vintages ever for this estate. Kudos to Hanno Zilliken for some of the finest wines produced in 1997.

indicating as noted that acid levels tend to be fairly high in German grapes when compared to residual sugar

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

I recently arrived on this computer, a little tired, and what follows below is from memory. (You've only mere integrity on that.)

Is Dahl's "Matter of Taste" the story where the phony drawing-room expert, under an important wager he has contrived,"discerns" the Bordeaux (very slowly and Hitchcockianly with a river and a bridge etc.) from what turns out ultimately to be a good look at the b*ttle (don't want to spoil it for anyone)? If not then I don't know it. (Though the one I do remember is not without parallels in the contemporary US, if i may say). (Other and wiser lands, of course, lack such defects. :-)

Did you read Dahl's interview in (I think it's called) Bin Ends at the end of _Decanter,_ about 1990? Very articulate on the changes in the UK consumer wine market since the 1950s. I have it readily on file (on paper) and could quote.

I don't recognize the Sayers story by title, though I do appreciate Sayers much and read most of her stories with much pleasure, she was surely the most scholarly of the entre-deux-guerres British detective fiction writers and thy mention hath earned thee less yet, less even yet, than Pavlov's dogs got: A quotation!

-- Knowing that in country places it is always considered proper to see the church, Lord Peter expressed his eagerness to do so. "It's always open nowadays," said the magistrate, leading the way to the west entrance. ... He pushed the door open. A curious, stuffy waft of stale incense, damp, and stoves rushed out at them as they entered -- a kind of concentrated extract of Church of England.

-- Dorothy Sayers, "The undignified melodrama of the bone of contention," in _Lord Peter,_ Harper & Row, 1987 (ISBN 0060913800). Not from online.

("Arf!")

Hi Bill,

I am definitely a fan of Trimbach wines in general, but specifically, the Riesling CF-E and the Gewurz. "Cuvée des Seigneurs de Ribeaupierre" which are standouts in this isolated spot - where any Alsatian wine of any sort is a rarity.

Schlumberger and Hugel make it down in small quantities, but I have never seen any Zind Humbrecht wines in NZ.

I have never tried the Clos Sainte Hune - I have never seen it available downunder - so enjoy a glass for me with your salad.