[OT] sachertorte icing, and tatin match

Alright, it is not totally OT because I plan to try matching a good wine to this, but does anyone have a good recipe for the icing that goes on Sachertorte? I once made one that came close to the Demel icing, but cannot figure out which recipe I used. I have the cake down pat, and the apricot filling is under control, but the ICING... Michael P.? Ian? Mark? Dale? Anyone? I dare not go on the cooking newsgroups, but those guys don't understand a thing about taste, they talk about revolting things like creme brulee of foie gras, better ask my wine geek friends, THEY will now, they have the palate!

This is urgent, next saturday I celebrate 20 years of marriage and 26 of cohabitation, so we plan to end the meal with 2 of our fave cakes, tarte tatin and sacher. For the tatin, we have perfected a syncretist version derived from all kinds of sources (Ian & Jacquie, various books, empirical testing), and we have some great rennet apples.

Er, what would you drink with sacher and tatin. Obviously I am far from clueless, but what would YOU serve?

Your counsel will be of great help.

Yours

Mike

Reply to
Mike Tommasi
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On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:16:38 +0200, Mike Tommasi wrote: [snip]

A few weeks ago I could not have told you what a tarte Tatin (note capitalization. The origin of this dish is an interesting one.) Then I had the occasion to go to a dinner where it was served with ice wine. The chef came out to talk about the dinner and told the story of the Tatin sisters. He said that tarte Tatin and ice wine was perhaps the best combination of dessert and dessert wine he had ever had the opportunity to serve.

BTW, could you post your recipe for the tT?

Vino

Reply to
Vino

Actually, I don't even EAT desserts, much less make them. Sorry

As a non-dessert eater I'm speaking from observation, not experience. But my guests have enjoyed tarte Tatin that I paired with late-harvest Loire chenins (esp. Quarts dC ) and SGN Rieslings. I'm sure that others will suggest Banyuls and sachertorte, but I've never really seen anyone be REALLY happy with any wine and rich chocolate dishes.

Dale

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Reply to
Dale Williams

Sachertorte, huh? There is a very humorous family story that centers on a sachertorte that my mother made for a dinner party, but accidentally added a pound (instead of a stick) of butter. One of the guests, a concert pianist of very wide girth, would have devoured the entire thing had he been given the opportunity... But, back to your question. Having watched several being made in a Konditorei in Vienna, I can assure you that your seemingly simple question is loaded, Mike. If you want that velvety chocolate covering, prepare to spend an hour or so in the effort (and make an extra torte as backup). My recollection is that it's made by adding VERY high quality bittersweet dark chocolate pieces to a heated solution of sugar water in a double boiler, then reducing down to a very thick syrup that is strained and poured over the completed torte. A quick perusal of the Web turns up this advice, which looks pretty good to me:

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Congrats on the celebration, Mike! You can tell Cathy that I had no idea that she was a child bride. ;-)

I'd drink espresso, but de gustibus Mike. The problem IMO is that one wine is very unlikely to go well with both. Two wines, perhaps?

Mark Lipton

Reply to
Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton has the right idea about how to make the icing. Here are more specific directions from an old book on Austria cooking.

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Break four ounces of fine plain chocolate into small pieces and carefully melt. Overheating will ruin the chocolate. Dissolve four ounces of sugar in a quarter of a gill of water and cook to 'small thread'(216 F). Revove from heat and allow to cool. Stir lukewarm sugar solution into the melted chocolate and add a drop of good oil. Stir constantly until mixture has thickened sufficiently to spread over the torte.

______________________________________

Here is a modern variation. You have good bitter-sweet chocolate in France. Just temper the chocolate with a bit of added cocoa butter and when it becomes thick enough, pour it on the tarte. Use a really good

70% or better bitter-sweet chocolate. Tempering chocolate requires use of a double boiler and a good thermometer. The chocolate must be cycled first to a higher temperature, the cocoa butter is added, and it is then cooled and again warmed a bit. You will have to see a good book on working chocolate for detailed directions. If the chocolate is not tempered properly, you get those white marks caused by partial separation of components of the chocolate.

The Hotel Sacher is supposed to allow the tortes to rest in a cool place for a day or two before covering with chocolate. This allows some of the apricot glaze to soak into the torte and makes it more easy to ice.

The chocolate often will crack when you try to cut the torte. Have a large pot of boiling water and a very large and heavy knife. Warm the knife blade in the boiling water and quickly wipe it dry before slicing. You may have to wipe and reheat the knife after every slice. In this way you can obtain perfect slices without cracking the chocolate. This is the only way I have found to slice the Hotel Sacher version without making a mess.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net from my email address. Then add snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com . I do not check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

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Cwdjrx _

Hi all

thanks for all the suggestions. Thanks to Ian for the care package (yes, we got a bottle of 6 putts Diznoko 1995, very nice, thank you again sir. Here's how the evening went.

PART I - the Banon + wine tasting

At 6 a select sub-committee sat down to test banon cheese with wine. Banon, despite an ancient tradition, has only just obtained the appellation in France. This will stopp people from trying to imitate it as far north as the Loire, and restore its Provencal pride. Still, there are banons from the dairy, and there are those from Joel Corbon, who knows all his goats on a first name basis.

An unwrapped tome a l'ancienne, 10 days old and very creamy inside, was matched to a Ch de Roquefort Les Genets 2000, a Cotes de Provence from jsut above Cassis that blows most Provence whites away, with a subtle vermentino aroma and a slightly oxidized finish.

Followed that with a banon that, after the 10 days as a tome, was wrapped in chestnut leaves for 10 days (we call this 10+10); creamy, tasty, nutty, not overpowering, even the non-goat-cheese-lovers love it, and it goes well with a Domaine de Bongran Cuvee Tradition 1999 Macon Villages Quintaine, one of the best deals on Burgundy white on the market, 20 Euro for spicy chard with great depth and incredible length, definitely ripe if not overripe grapes, a hint of botrytis in the nose, and plenty of power to stand up to a powerful cheese.

We move on to the 10+20 Banon, veeery strong, attacks the mouth with deep creamy tannic sensation and a smell to make all the cats in the neighbourhood howl. We pair it up with one of the few wines that can imagine standing up to this, a Domaine de la Rectorie "Fleur de Pierre" Vin de Table (hence no vintage marking allowed). An extraterrestrial wine, white veering to rose, probably matured without ouillage giving it a rancio taste, very nice, keeps the banon in check by rounding off its harsh edges, and survives beautifully.

The last cheese is missing in action. It was supposed to be a 10days +

6 months, but we will only get it for the public version of this tasting next week in Italy. So we just keep going with the previous cheese and try to imagine a looooong maturing, something giving off hints of ammonia even. We pair this to a Domaine Cazes 1993 Rivesaltes Ambre', a deep orange delicious grenache blanc with plenty of sugar and some oxidation. We figured only the residual sugar will let you survive such a cheese, and there is still plenty of acidity to keep things from tilting.

PART II - the meal

We started off with little munchy things and a mini-horizontal of Champagne, 2 bottles of vintage 1986, one from Dom Ruinart Blanc de Blancs absolutely superb, quite evolved, deep golden, honey, fine fine bubbles,a wine to appreciate by itself. Followed up with a recently disgorged 1986 Comete by Raymond Boulard (Francis, if you are reading this, as you surely are, when is the next Comete?), very smooth, much fresher than the Ruinart (we should have reversed the order), still has a lot of ageing potential IMHO, cannot believe it is over 15 years old, floral.

Amuse-gueules prepared by Cathy and tied up with chives, things like rolled grilled aubergine with creamy cheese, and a multilayered provencal omelet (tapenade, peppers, zucchini, herbs). The wine is served by hiding the label, but you can tell from the shape it is Alsace, and it is white. I ask what the grape variety is, most think of Pinot gris or blanc, it is actually a blanc de noirs, a Pinot Noir

1995 "L'insolite" white by Pierre Frick, biodynamic, deep round aromatic and a good match.

Cathy's ushroom soup with girolles follow. We finish the Domaine de Bongran that seems to have gained much by resting two more hours, and is showing wonderfully.

Main dish, guinea hen done with maury wine and dried porcini served with Domaine de Trevallon 1996, a wine that last year was in a kind of hole, and this year is exploding with cassis flavours and lovely mouth feel, I am so glad, I thought I had bought 12 duds, man is this good wine, when is the rest of Provence going to wake up and follow this lead? Great acidity, chocolate, tobacco, maybe it helps that my cave got a bit warm this past summer...

Cheese: again? Leftover banon, an old salers, a pont l'eveque, a gorgonzola. With leftover wines of course.

Dessert !

We settled on sachertorte and an apple rhubard tatin-crumble.

The sachertorte recipe I followed was the one Mark sent me, it worked out well in the end. I sliced the cake in two, filled it with apricot preserve passed through a strainer, then coated the whole thing with the same. The icing is not easy, the first attempt went badly and I had to remove the mess carefully, the apricot coating helped prevent the mess from sticking. I remelted everything, and went at it more boldly, it worked beautiful, remaining shiny and not too hard to cut.

The apple rhubarb preparation was made like tarte tatin, but replacing the pastry with a crumble mixture. It also worked very well, we managed to get the caramel a rich dark colour, and the season's rennet apples worked out really well.

Ian's tokaji went very well with both, the apple reacts well to tokaji, the rennets do oxidize a bit and they seem to get a hint of the tokaji's finish. The chocolate also goes well, and the simultaneous apricot taste obviously recalls the wine's flavours.

1+1=3, QED.

We also tried Maury with the sachertorte, it was a Preceptorie de Centernach cuvee "Aurelie Pereira de Abreu" Mise Tardive 2001, a very delicate Maury with all the freshness of a "mute' sur grains" that was a bit overwhelmed by the simultaneous chocolate apricot onslaught. We drank it alone after dinner and it was a pleasure, no strong alcohol sensation, a very fragrant nose.

Cheers all, and thanks for the advice.

Mike

Reply to
Mike Tommasi

Anyone out there?

I find that posting a summary of a tasting or a meal does not get much of a reaction, and for the last year or so I have posted very few of these messages, for that reason. I guess it is better to ask questions than to rant on for pages about your latest pigout.

Should I resort to zin and pizza in order to boost my ratings? ;-)

Mike

Reply to
Mike Tommasi

Hi Mike:

Sorry about that. Some people (like me) use newsreaders that filter out posts over a certain length. Usually I see clues that the posts exists, and then look thru Dejanews. A drawback, but I accept it for my at-wrk newsreader (because it's an offline reader, and doesn't tie up line). So I'm slow on answering long posts some times.

It all comes down to what you want out of a post. I post a lot of notes here, and at least 50% of the time there's no response. I still like to do it, just for myself (it gives me a searchable base of my own notes). At same time, I hope someone reads them and finds them useful, but I don't expect them to answer if there's nothing to add.

Now that I've read your notes, most of the wines are ones I don't know. Except Trevallon, which I like0 but it is more like $40 here I think! I hope one day to try Francois's Champagnes, but with no NY distributor....

I'm surprised to hear that Banon doesn't already have it's own cheese appelation. Like many French cheeses, the ones we get here are highly variable. I only buy from top cheesemongers now.

Sorry again for slow response, but I did enjoy reading about your dinner!

Hey watch, there's nothing wrong with pizza and zin!

Going to a Margaux (the appelation, not Ch. Margaux) Mania offline tonight, will report tomorrow -but I won't expect you to answer, as I know you'll think it's unripe swill :) Dale

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Dale Williams

Interesting, Mike. I _love_ Banon and have struggled to find a good wine pairing with it. Alas, I doubt that I'll be able to locate this wine in Indiana, so perhaps I'll have to make a trip to the source... FWIW, there is an excellent Banon-like cheese (fermier) made here in Indiana. The farm is also home to one of the few remaining American Chestnut trees, so they wrap their chevre in the brandy-soaked leaves of this tree. The cheese is sold quite young, but a bit of time in the cellar transforms it.

Wow! Wines noted for future reference. I may have a chance of finding the Macon Villages.

I can but imagine what such an aged Banon will be like. How do you think that a Tokaji would go with it? Dunno what made me think of it, but it does come to mind...

I'm glad that it went well, Mike! As I said earlier, icing it is no small thing if one wants to go for the real effect. And I'm happy that the recipe was to your liking.

:-)

I'm not too surprised about the sachertorte match with it, Mike. As I said, coffee for me if I'm served such a rich treat, but de gustibus...

Thanks for the great notes! It makes me wish that I was there. Good luck at the "public event" and do let us know how the vieux banon is when you get a chance to try it.

Mark Lipton

Reply to
Mark Lipton

..snipped...

Thanks for the great notes and great ideas Mike.. would you mind sending me a copy of the recipies?

All these interesting notes get me wondering what goes on inside someone`s head when it comes time to pair a wine with a meal... It may seem like an odd question but hey why not, instead of me asking to solve a particular meal how about understanding meals in general..

enough from me tonight ..Chris

Reply to
Chris Lake

What??? I've seen many chestnut trees in my travels. Perhaps you inadvertently misspoke? Or maybe I don't understand chestnut trees.

Vino

Reply to
Vino

Are you sure that you were looking at the American Chestnut (Castanaea dentata)? This was once one of the dominant hardwoods of the Eastern hardwood forest, but was nearly exterminated by a fungal blight in the early

20th Century, a blight for which there is still no cure or palliative. Here's a link for you:

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BTW, it is taxonomically distinct from the European Chestnut (C. sativa) which is thankfully a bit more resistant to the blight.

Mark Lipton

Reply to
Mark Lipton

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure at all what kind of chestnut trees I have seen, thus my remark to that effect in my response. I'll check on one that is close to where I live and see if I can find out what it is.

Vino

Reply to
Vino

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