Pizza and Cab

Sorry Rich, but we get a posting almost exactly like yours every 9 months or so. Usually about Zin.

Right bank? Of what river? With pizza? With what topping? How did you prepare the tomatoes?

No tannin at this point? No ageing would work? When will the tannin kick in then? Why would you appreciate a tannin-less red?

That's all, I know this thread will go on for a few weeks, have fun, call me when it's over.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Boy, Mike, have a bad day? :)

Rich, I think if you're talking Bordeaux (which is what most people mean when they mention left or right bank), you meant left. Right bank wines are the ones more likely to be Merlot based, with the Cabernet Sauvignon dominating in the Left bank communes.

While Mike has a point that toppings etc. could make a difference, as a gross generality with pizza I look for red wine with good acidity and lower tannins - usually lighter Chianti, Barbera, and maybe Valpolicella. Wouldn't normally think of CS, but your description sounds like it fits the basic profile.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Apologies to Rich, I did not mean to sound so down, yours was a legitimate request, truly. I did have a hard time this morning with all the viruses coming in, more viruses than legit messages... that's no reason to make snide remarks on the NG, I take it all back. Hope that makes up for the (rare?) grumpy outburst.

Start again

If you make a good topping by stewing the tomatoes for a long time they will have next to zero acidity and you will be able to put in any decent left bank cab, I think the aromas of cab will complement the topping well. Avoid strong pepperoni-like meats. Green peppers only if the cab tends that way...

If you use fresh raw tomatoes and they get cooked along with the pizza, then you will have to add some spice or herbs (basil, oregano) to tone down the acid bite, and your best bet will be a rose' wine from Tavel or a Beaujolais. Like Dale said, low tannin and plenty of acidity, but also I might add a lot of perfume.

Let us know what you find. I suspect a top flight Zin will be too powerful, too tannic and not acid enough. Let me know if you find otherwise.

Mike (feeling better after a Chateau Pierre Bise and a Domaine de Bongran)

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Glad you're feeling better. Don't know Bongran, but after a couple of not-so-great experiences (probably storage related), have moved Pierre -Bise to my upper tier of Loire makers. What wine? I tend find Pierre Bise stickies (CdLayon, QuartsdeChaume)better than their dry, though I had a nice Savennieres.

Isn't it a treat when someone with you in their address book decides to download a worm/virus? :( Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

The Anjou last night was spectacular, honeyed quince, deep golden, rich and cncentrated. The Bongran might suffer at transport, low sulphur levels? Last night the 99 dry was amazing, with the same botrytis aromas as the Anjou but more apple-like and a hint of sucrosity.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

Sorry about your viruses. I guess like me you don't have ADSL (broadband) either, so you have the ultimate luxury of paying for these attempts to mess up your data!

le/on Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:57:05 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

A BIG caveat here. I know this is accepted wisdom, but I can't go along with it. I've cooked tomato based sauces anything from 5 hours, and I've not noticed any significant reduction in acidity. However, one thing I _have_ noticed, is that if you cook the sauce more than about 40 minutes or so with the seeds present, the sauce _gains_ acidity. So as a general principle, ALWAYS deseed tomatoes if you're going to cook them more than a short while.

I fairly often serve italianate tomato based dishes (napolitano, putanesca, bolognese sauces, egg plant parmigiana, pizzas) and in general I tend NOT to serve tannic cabernet sauvignon/merlot wines or malbec wines. I look to lighter wines such as our local Côteaux de Glanes (gamay, ségalin, merlot) which goes fine, though I'd not pretend any wine will be _improved_ by the marriage. Nor will the sauce either, for that matter.

Extravagant man!!

I do have ADSL...

I am not sure what the actual acid content is, as a matter of fact I suspect that it does not change, in fact it may even rise as water evaporates during protracted stewing.

But the balance, the taste impression is definitely of increased mellowness, almost sugary as the tomato gets "confit".

I have also noticed that this only happens if you have sufficient EVOL (there's an acronym I learnt on AFW...) in the sauce; you have to be VERY generous with the olive oil, otherwise you will obtain a kind of metallic taste. The ned result should be a shiny bright coloured compote.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:52:01 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

Well then at least you don't PAY to download cr@ap I remember one sad day, I had 75 messages containing viruses. Each was between 143 & 155k long. Any idea how long that takes at 45.333 kbd, call it 4000 bytes a second allowing for the inefficiency of email as a method of transmitting binary info.

I'd have expected that, though I've only ever _noticed_ increasing sharpness if I stew with pips in.

Yup that's EXACTLY it. That's what you can prevent by removing the pips.

Can you give me VERY approx proportion between oil and tomato, either next time you make it, or now if you know it? Pretty please.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Right bank. Topping was Mozzarella, mushrooms, and some Parma bacon. Didn't prepare the tomatoes, poured them put of a box.

Tannins do not kick in. They are either there or not. This was a Cab with some nice acid and really no big Cali fruit. Yes, I would appreciate tannin-less red since I do not have that much space to lay wines down for long.

Love and peace....

Ian,

You might consider using a program called Mailwasher. With it, you can check your mail on the server and delete spam and viruses on the server without downloading them.

The program's free and available from

Cheers,

-Topi Kuusinen, Finland