Table etiquette on both sides of the Atlantic

"st.helier" in news:nzH4f.928$ snipped-for-privacy@news.xtra.co.nz :

Oops! Thanks for the corrections.

Main point still stands, about moving people among continents. (Also the lurid novels part.) Other examples of the former are from New Zealand for instance. One of those (also eventually made baron) was what would later be called an atomic physicist. He worked in Montreal initially. Because his research concerned atoms, his 1908 Nobel prize was in chemistry, prompting his famous quip about seeing many rapid transitions in nature, but none so rapid as his own from physicist to chemist. Later he managed the pioneering Cavendish laboratory at Cambridge.

The following follow-up trivia is from friends who were graduate students at Cambridge. The Cavendish laboratory, site of early experiments with nuclear radiation, whose effects were just becoming known at the time; and exposed also to chemical contaminants used in these experiments, was eventually deserted by natural scientists, with rumors of hazards there. It was handed off to social scientists, who needed space.

A striking example of cross-empire activity I've witnessed was a broadcast of the military bagpipe bands drilling at Edinburgh, a star unit consisting of Gurkhas from Nepal, complete with the pillbox caps and serious expressions. (The Gurkhas are a respected part of empire military tradition -- you could see groups of them in HK in its colony days for instance -- but bagpipes are surely an introduced taste.)

Max wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:33:47 -0700:

MH> "st.helier" in news:nzH4f.928$ snipped-for-privacy@news.xtra.co.nz : ??>> Correction.... ??>>

??>> Buchan was a Scot.

MH> Oops! Thanks for the corrections.

MH> Main point still stands, about moving people among MH> continents. (Also the lurid novels part.) Other examples MH> of the former are from New Zealand for instance. One of MH> those (also eventually made baron) was what would later be MH> called an atomic physicist. He worked in Montreal MH> initially. Because his research

Didn't you forget his name, which was Rutherford? A little quotation, inspired by the current celebration for Einstein: "Oh, quantum mechanics, we don't bother with that stuff!"

Born Ernest Rutherford, he chose the title Baron Rutherford of Nelson when awarded a baronetcy in 1931.

Just about every country has its share of heroes who changed the world forever

NZ is justly proud of Rutherford

It may come as some surprise to our US friends that one of the most influential figures in the US space race was another NZer - William Pickering.

OK - I know - way OT - I shall reprimand myself by forcing down a whole bottle of Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc 2005 (the 21st vintage of CB SB) - nowadays, complete with Stelvin cap, too.

St. Helier,

Thank you for the enlightening info.

Now, don't be too hard on yourself. I think that maybe sharing that CB with a good friend, or loved one, would be penitence enough!

Hunt, who posted the longest, by far, reply in this OT thread.

But, during my scientific education, he was routinely referred to as Ernest Rutherford, with no mention of his nobility.

But, of course, there are plenty of other Kiwis who have achieved worldwide fame and renown, Sir Edmund Hilary coming to mind as an exemplar. In my personal Pantheon, I also have whoever first decided to plant Sauvignon in Marlborough ;-)

I recently tried two other 2005s, the Villa Maria Private Bin (USD 13) and the Matua Valley (USD 10). Of the two, the VM was substantially more interesting, with plenty of grapefruit and herbal notes to keep my attention. The Matua Valley by comparison was a touch thin and bitter. In fact, I'd say that of the last 4-5 vintages of the Private Bin that I've tried, 2005 stands close to the top.

Mark Lipton

"st.helier" in news:VA%4f.1168$ snipped-for-privacy@news.xtra.co.nz :

Don't you mean barony? My authorities showed him created baron rather than baronet, though again subject to correction. (I understand that the first is technically a true ennoblement while the second, the lowest level of European aristocracy, is a rank of honor reserved for commoners, above most of the knighthoods.)

All very complicated. One small aspect of republics is that we dispense deliberately with all that. (To the frustration only of a few desperate social climbers.)

To Mark L, yes I too learned of Rutherford by name and work, not title. These civil honors tend of course to come after, rather than before or during, the good work. (Another comment from the same scientist, if I remember it right from reading 30 years ago, was when he looked back much later at his research, and remarked "Rutherford, you used to be a damned clever fellow.")

Oblique connection with the geographical Rutherford(s) in northern California wine country?

Max, I am no historian - my info was obtained via Googling several biographies.

Firstly, Rutherford *was* a commoner - a farmers son from Nelson just 80km from Marlborough (trivia included to try to give this post a hint of relevance in this NG!)

As to whether he was actually a Baron or Baronet I am simply unable to ascertain - confusion exists even among imminent biographers.

Many call him Ernest, Lord Rutherford of Nelson, which is patently incorrect.

Most call him Ernest, 1st Baron of Nelson; some with the addition "of Cambridge" - many call him British.

Whatever the truth may be, his image is on the NZ$100 bank note.

On that note (please excuse the pun!) Mark L commented upon Sir Edmund Hillary.

His likeness appears on the NZ$5 - the only living person (other than the reigning monarch) to ever have been thus portrayed.

st.helier wrote on Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:59:00 +1300:

??>>> Born Ernest Rutherford, he chose the title Baron ??>>> Rutherford of Nelson when awarded a baronetcy in 1931.

There is a rather good resource at

and also in general. Rutherford was knighted and later made a Lord with the title Baron Rutherford of Nelson. Incidentally, I don't know if Rutherford was ever a baronet which is a hereditary knighthood. Ordinarily, a knighthood is not inherited.

James Silverton Potomac, Maryland.

Correction.....

In 1931 he was created First Baron Rutherford of Nelson, New Zealand, and Cambridge.

The title died when he did, in 1937, on 19th October, - Hey, that's today!!!!!

Baronetcy was hereditary, while ordinary knighthoods were not. These days, with no hereditary peerages being created, Baronies are for life only.

I think Baronetcies weree invented by one of the Stuart kings to raise money - i.e. they were sold.

No need to refer to Marlborough. I went to an interesting Nelson tasting a couple of weeks ago. The Neudorf PN and their 2 quite different Chardonnays were notable.

How about Ernest, 1st Baron Rutherford of Nelson? "Rutherford of Nelson" is the name of the peerage, and then the "of Cambridge" is added as a residential marker.

And, BTW, he was actually from Brightwater, outside Nelson, as are many of my wife's family, though no-one claims to be related to him.

Brightwater Vineyards make a very young vine PN that I found to be very pleasant. Not ready for prime time, but light, pale, refreshing - a good lunchtime wine.

--brian

"st.helier" in news:c%f5f.1341$ snipped-for-privacy@news.xtra.co.nz :

Excellent! I did not know that currency. It is a fine complement to the European portfolio. In late pre-Euro years, anyway, each nation had a distinctive style. (Germany had philosophers on its banknotes; Netherlands plants and birds; the United Kingdom Her Majesty ...)

Rutherford is not necessarily OT here -- I am still curious for connections to the Rutherford appellation of north-coast California.

"Yves" skrev i melding news:4350b02d$ snipped-for-privacy@news.vo.lu...

An amusing addition: My local newpaper is to launch a Friday supplement, "The Magazine" and has put up ads all over the place. One of these posters displays a selection of factoids ("nice to know something") and one of these is the following: "During WW2 German security and counterespionnage personnel spotted American agents on their habit cutting up the beef in small pieces before they started eating..." A most dangerous habit I'd say... Anders

Max,

Might just be that he was cremated and his ashes spread in Napa, yielding that "Rutherford Dust?" Sorry, I could not help myself. Guess I need to lay off of the "breakfast Chards" for a while!

Hunt