In praise of pubs

Can't speak for the rest of the country, but in Yorkshire there are more real ale pubs serving a wider range of beers than I have ever experienced in 50 odd years.

They are thriving to an extent utterly unimaginable a few years ago.

Looking at the Good Beer guide, there appear to be more independent brewers in the 2008 guide than in any other GBG since its inception.

'Bleak in the extreme'? My experience tells me quite the opposite.

1957 yes (although quality and variety were often questionable), but go forward a few decades. The 60's 70's and to some degree even the 80's were characterised by an over abundance of keg and nitro-keg beers, and a worrying decline in real ales. Thank goodness, CAMRA contributed to a reversal of that seemingly terminal trend.

I must tell Tim Martin of Wetherspoons that he's operating in a 'small niche market'. I think he would be amused.

I'd like to know your definition of 'miniscule' . Yes, some are short lived, but the new taxation regime has ensured that many more now survive, than did, say, 10 years ago. And a lot (Ossett and Copper Dragon, to name but two in my region) are doing incredibly well.

Yes - statistics can prove almost anything, I'm afraid, and at the same time tell us nothing useful . All I can do is say that, as a dedicated real ale drinker, I now have more choice in West Yorkshire than I have ever had in my 50 or so years of drinking beer. If the same is not true in other parts of the country, then beer drinkers in such parts need to look to their own commitment to the real ale cause.

Right! Now I'm off to the West Riding Licensed Refreshment Rooms in Dewsbury where I can guarantee I'll sample at least a couple of real ales I've never had before!

Oh come on now, that's too easy to pick holes with. Of course there were more pubs serving real ale in 1957: keg beer was only available in a tiny minority of pubs. You really need to go to Yorkshire to verify the OP's statement. If it's different in your part of the world - you need to move!

Chris

Must agree with this. Pubs in places such as Holmfirth, Huddersfield, Hawes, Masham, York, Oxenhope, Haworth, Keighley, Askrigg, Dalton, Richmond, and Thirsk, thru West Yorks and up through the Dales seem to have continued serving fine hand pulled real ales continuously over the past decade or more. Sure, they still sling gassy lagers and such for the younger crowd, but the Real Ales are doing well.

My only concern is the growing absence of the darker, heavier ales.

nick

I think you're trying a little too hard to prove your prediction that pubs are doomed because of the smoke ban. Ok (c) is true and taking into account the decline of the big brewers, (a) might be true but (b) is open to debate. I can only speak authoratively about my area, but here in Bury (not too far from your stomping ground), there are far more cask ale pubs now than 10 yrs ago. At that time people would travel into Mncr for their cask fix but now there's no need to. We've kept the pubs that always sold cask (Holts etc) but a lot of the keg pubs have actually gone back to cask (Thwaites for example) and we've even gained some new additions. A quick check of my records show that in one mile stretch of Ramsbottom, ten years ago, the pubs were mainly keg. Now that same stretch is 100% cask. 10 yrs ago there were

18 hanpumps, now there are 43. Unfortunately not all serving different beers:) However, I think its pretty clear from that, that (b) is far from true.

In message , PeterE wrote

Poor landlords, poor beer, poor food and poor maintenance are more likely to lead to pub closures rather than the smoking ban.

Often within a hundred yards of a pub that has closed is another that has being doing much more trade and survives.

In some areas, as Greene King takes over more pubs fewer people want to drink in them :)

The smoking ban is just an excuse for the pub owners (mostly big business) to sell off pubs in prime development areas and cash in on the real estate value. If the properties were marked by the local councils as being anything that precluded their redevelopment as housing the number of closure-sale-demolition incidents would drop through the floor.

I know it's only one pub, but if you like the darker styles, can I suggest the Grove Inn in Huddersfield

The current / forthcoming beer list has quite a few of these beers, and the prices are pretty good too.

One of the biggest threats to pubs is the mentality of some of the large chains.They begin by charging a reasonable rent but force the pub to buy all their drinks from them at an inflated , After 3 years there is a rent review.price.If the new incumbents have made a go of it and sold a lot of the pub company's beer their rents are hiked up enormously, to the point where it's hardly worth continuing. The point is that some of the pub companies have no interest in running good pubs, they are simply property managers.Experienced and successful landlords have been forced out by their stupidity and greed.By stupidity , look at one of my local pubs which was really flourishing, six rotating real ales always available in cracking condition and the pub was busy all day.The people running the pub refused to accept the rent review and left.The lease had to be offered at a low rent to attract new tenants and the pub has gone downhill to the extent that it's hardly making any money. Have you any shares in Scottish&Newcastle?

Oh yes, love The Grove Inn. Also in H'field I love the Rat and Ratchet, which is not far from The Grove Inn. I especially love the R&R's Mild Festivals. That area seems to have loads of really good pubs including The Nook in H'firth and The Red Lion (??) in Jackson Bridge.

I believe my favorite place for lunch is the Black Sheep brewery in Masham. Wonderful carvery (yum --- roast lamb!) and well-kept Riggwelter, which is probably my favorite ale.

I can see I must come over again this Spring as I am drooling here at the PC.

nick

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:38:56 +0000, valeofbelvoirdrinker wrote (in article ):

...and CAMRA explicitly supports the "tie" system that allows this to continue.

Is Dewsbury anywhere near the Coal Mining museum?? (We went there for a "break" from the Rat and Ratchet Mild Festival last year.)

I seem to be fighting with various online mapping systems at the moment, but I'll betcha we went right by the Dewsbury train station.

Looks like about 15 miles from Holmfirth (where we like to stay a few nights) and not far from Huddersfield. Izzat it??

nick

I could have written that, word for word, including the last question

:o((