Ausbruch (pinging Michael Pronay)

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" skrev i melding news:tJjIf.44780$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

Hi Nils Michael is indeed the resident expert - but allow me to give a short reply: "Ausbruch" literally means "Outbreak" - and what you do is to break out the crystallized sugar in the grapes during fermentation. That is achieved by thoroughly mixing in juice or wine during fermentation. For Ausbruch the added liquid must be from the same vineyard and the resulting juice must have at least 138 degrees Oechsle. hth Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" skrev i meddelandet news:43f1ddb7$0$22970$ snipped-for-privacy@nn1-read.tele.net...

DO I get this right - you mix in the grapes (or extra juice) during the primary fermentation? It starts to ferment, then you add more grapes/juice of a high sugar content?

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" skrev i melding news:OVlIf.44798$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

Yes, I think so. If you can handle German there's the following description: Ausbruch: Zur besseren Mostauslaugung des natürlichen Zuckergehaltes (ist "ausbrechen des Zuckers") kann frisch gekelterter Traubenmost oder Wein - der Spätlese, Auslese oder Beerenauslese entspricht und derselben Lage entstammt - dem Lesegut zugesetzt werden. Mostauslaugung: Beimischen von frisch gekeltertem oder auch bereits gärendem Traubenmost oder auch Wein zur Trockenbeeren-Maische bei zumeist Prädikatsweinen. Dadurch wird der in den Beeren in kristalliner Form vorhandene Zucker ausgelöst bzw. "ausgebrochen" (daher stammt auch die Bezeichnung "Ausbruch") und damit besser bei der Gärung verarbeitet.

It follows that they include the grape material (the "Maische") during at least the early stages of fermentation - a different procedure from Mosel, I'd say. :-). We do need Michael to put matters right here, I think :-) Anders

I wrote an article regarding Ruster Ausbruch (that's Ausbruch wine from the Austrian town of Rust) which you can find here:

You might find it explains things, including production methods.

Hope it helps a bit! e. _____________________

"e. winemonger" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I appreciate your taking an interest, however, I don´t understand how the production methoid differs from that of a Trockenbeerenauslese. It appears to deal with picking the grapes, one by one (somewhat like in Sauternes), always chosing the ones affected by botrytis - to me that sounds like a TBA - difference being in the sugar content, of course. Ausbruch comes between Beerenauslese and TBA so should have less sugar than the TBA.

What I have perceived, both from what Anders wrote and what I have tried to make out of a French book I have, would imply a sort of two-stage feremntation - botrytis grapes, or grape juice, being added to grape juice already fermenting.

HAve I misunderstood something? Is Ausbruch no different from a TBA nad a BA in the mode of production?

I believe there has been some bantering between Austrian and Hungarian producers of who made the first Ausbruch, or aszu, wine - since the chaplain Szepsy Maté is on record from the mid-1630s as having made what indisputably was a tokaj aszu, that however being som decades alter than the first Ausbruch (as you point out in your article). Bu the aszu is made in two stages - traditionally, first a dry white wine from normal grapes, then mashed botrytis grapes are added to start a second feremntation. Today this process has been slightly changed as I understand it, but that is not the point.

Cheers, and thank you for taking an interest!

Nils Gustaf

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" skrev i melding news:QfsIf.44848$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

Well, the term implies you are breaking out the sugar, i.e. dissolving the crystallized excess with some extra juice and that is not a method I associate with making 'ordinary' BA's or TBA's - at least not in Germany. The Neusiedler See area in Austria near Hungary is a rather more hot place than cool Mosel and it is natural that they have developed other methods when dealing with overripe grapes carrying rather much more sugar than a Saar Riesling for instance. It doesn't seem to me that the methods employed for an Austrian TBA are different from German ones, however.

So the Ausbruch method seems to be a specialty for those parts of the world.

Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" skrev i meddelandet news:43f25775$0$22979$ snipped-for-privacy@nn1-read.tele.net...

Exactly. I was referring to the article by e. winemonger (vide supra). I no only a few words in HUngarian (most importantly, nem tudom, which apparently means "I don't know") but it appears from some sites that Ausbruch and aszu has the same meaning. Clue?

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Here I am, and I hope to be able to clarify.

Emily is right in what she has described on her website.

In fact, Ausbruch is made exactly in the way a TBA is made. There is no addition of partially fermented must or whatsoever. The wine law *allows* the addition, but does not require it. Ernst Triebaumer (from Rust) told me that when Austrian wine law was compiled in the early 1970s, Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese were conceived according to German standards, albeit with higher minimum sugar reqirements. "Ausbruch" - which had tration only in Rust - was kind of "intermingled" between BA and TBA. A bureaucrat with some knowledge of wine history found out that "Ausbruch" in the old days was made by adding juice, so that's how this somewhat obscure method found its way into the wine law.

Ernst Triebaumer - and Michael Wenzel - both insist on the fact that it has never been a tradition to add any juice to the mash, and it would be foolish, since it would reduce the sugar content.

Incidentally, István Szepsy in Tokaj told me exactly the same: Great Tokaj Aszú is made exactly like a TBA, there's no adding of anything.

As to the sugar content, dont forget that 25/27/30°KMW 127/139/156°Oe = 29.4/31.8/35.3°Brix for BA/AB/TBA are minimum requirements only. For "Ausbruch" in Rust there is a gentlemen's agreement not to label a wine Ruster Ausbruch that isn't at least of TBA quality. Thies "understating agreement" holds true for all other steps down the ladder, except for Kabinett where there is a maxmimum alcohol content by law. This agreement, however, obviously only concerns sweet(ish) white wines.

Nope. In fact I know of nobody who ever might have done that, with one exception: Georg Stiegelmar in Gols once made a wine like this according to an older Hungarian book, where this is described as "mászlás" ("Maßlasch" in German orthography), not aszú. He did it only once or twice.

HTH a little,

M.

You are ever so welcome

I have looked into your previous discussions on Google (took some time ... ) and realize that to be the case - my profound excuses to her if I have in anyway offended.

... and that should, of course, settle it.

That I find a bit confusing since about half a year ago Decanter had a special add-ion about Hungarian wine in which the production of aszu was described in the old way, with addition of botrytised mashed grapes to a dry white wine etc. Still - as long as the wine is good, why shouldn't I smile?

Interesting, indeed.

It certainly does.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Let me precise Istvan. He said that the *greatest Aszu wines* - in past and nowadays - have been made with pure botrytis berries and nothing else.

M.

A very important clarification. Thanks again, Michael. Thanks also to Anders and Emily for clearing out this matter.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

You certainly did not offend, Nils! And if I had had a minute to check back in sooner, I would have attempted to clarify. Lucky for all of us, Michael Pronay shares his incredible wealth of knowledge here! I will admit that what I know about Ausbruch comes from but a few sources: what I have been told by Kurt Feiler (of Feiler-Artinger) and Michael Wenzel, what I have read in a book about Rust, what I have found in the various Austrian publications with English translations, and what I have gleaned through discussions such as the ones in this group.

I usually have my fingers crossed and am hoping that I've got it right.

Cheers, e.

You really did. I'll have to pass this on (to wein-plus glossary!)

Anders

Emily: Sticking to what the *good* producers tell you never is wrong.

That's one thing I learned throughout the years: The good ones don't need to tell you "stories". Superior winemaking has no magic, it more or less tends to get simpler, more down to earth, less interventionist, the better it gets.

M.

;-)

M.

magic, it more or less tends to get simpler, more down to earth, less interventionist, the better it gets.

And not just the Austrian ones. Most top winemakers seem to agree that the majority of their work occurs in the vineyard.

Mark Lipton

Very probably yes!

M.

Btw, what is Stefan doing in the US? Greet him from my part, please!

M.