Clos de l'Oratoire du Pape

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" skrev i meddelandet news:ftadnW0SXeapjNPZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" skrev i meddelandet news:ftadnW0SXeapjNPZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

Hello Bep, Reason I'm asking is I may be able to obtain a few magnums of that producer - '77, '80, and since I have previous good experiences of old CdP (mid '70s) from other producers I am sorely tempted. Magnums tend to age more gracefully, I believe. Thanks for your input - it is highly regarded.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

PS Say hello to JMF and tell him the dromedary is well and content in the Copenhagen Zoo.

Up until the late 90s Clos de l'Oratoire made a kind of mid-weight traditional CdP. Lately very modern style. In magnums I would certainly chance it with a good vintage (assuming good price). This is not a Vieux Donjon, V. Telegraph, Beaucastel , Rayas level wine that I would spend real money on a chance on a off vintage. Of course, if they're 15 euros I'd take a shot despite risk- potential reward is good enough for a longshot.

My memories of Oratories come from tastings in the mid 1980s.I briefly represented Clos des Pontiffs and Ch Simian in the mid 1990's in Middle Atlantic States & South. I tasted the latest Oratorio then to see how the Pontiffs & Simian compared to a typical CDP.

CDP's age very well, a 1949 Mount Redon served by my wine guru friend---resulted in a few of us buying the last case at NYC's Park Avenue Liquors.

Around that time I bid on and won a 1947 CDP from Chicago Wine Auction. It was bottled for the Packard Departments stores in Detroit---there wasn't much information on who did the bottling just a few worst like " bottled for Packards by YTR Ltd. Anyhow @ $55 a bottle the wine was a steal and was over its peak but gently so. I've had Beaucastel a few times in Magnums with great pleasure. CDP & Gigondas are very food friendly and priced except the top of the line producers. Unless I know the cuvee, I'm less sure of Cotes du Rhone. In this day when everyday drinking, modestly priced wines are no longer available from Bordeaux, Northern Italy, California---Oz has captured that niche, wines from Southern Rhone need to be promoted better; The introduction of wines from Provence and other formerly obscure AOCs have taken attention away from the Southern Rhone.

Note: For those in the Boston area, Marty's sells the Chateau Simian Cotes du Rhone. Initially I placed 28 cases there. When it was time for reorder, Marty's told me they made other arrangements the French broker I dealt with. Marty's saved about $2 a case, cutting me out of any role in the process. So I asked the winery to take off "A Winemayven Selection" from the back label & told the broker I expected stores to try to get the best price from suppliers. Indeed I had cut my commission rate in half for Marty's. But I thought we were doing business in the Rhone and to the south but he sacrificed that to keep the connection with Marty's. I guess my displeasure was enhanced by the bankruptcy of a wholesaler in Atlanta. When the shipment came in the Georgia importer no longer customers, so I moved the goods myself in the Washington area & Maryland. Of course I missed a few legal niceties in Virginia & Maryland but both the Georgia importer and the wineries got their money on time, A wholesaler in Georgia can not buy or import directly creating a fourth tier. Most GA importers do not even warehouse wines, after a few hours sitting in the importers warehouse, unwrapped, it is delivered or picked up by the wholesaler. I never could get the Simian owners to make up point of sale material that said "Don't monkey around--try Ch Simian today" After I did all that, the French broker cut me out. I hope he's still chasing Marty's for payment.

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" wrote in message news:1qp3g.54315$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

"DaleW" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

In this case, the best price would be c EU 18, but may be 22 (it's an auction). My experiences of the auctioneer so far have been good - all wines have been sound, including the 1949 C d Layon.

Nils Gustaf