re: Who is really cheering the sale of Erath?

Seems to me this thread is only intended to get people talking about this winery. A marketing thread?

Mike

David Anders> "Ny only comment"... and you want to nitpick on "my" use of English? >

Another person who doesn't care to delve into the issue.

David

Mike Tommasi wrote:

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:06:34 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

Oui chef!, mais quand on parle des perles et le culs noirs, c'est un peu riche de ne pas reconnaitre la différence entre une faute de frappe et une erreur de grammaire fondamentale.

Salut/Hi David Anderson,

le/on 16 Jun 2006 20:42:20 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

Yes, because although I can't type, I can speak English.

Did you miss this one?

No comment here?

Did I see you post that link that people are asking about?

Ian,

Sorry, I was too caught up in your comments regarding my use of English grammar, and thought that was the primary focus of your post. If you really wanted to talk about the ORWA wine industry, I figured you would have addressed that first. ;)

It's too bad Erath didn't contact you. However... seeing how your "mailbox full to avoid spam" (which BTW is not proper English -- it should be "My mailbox is full to avoid spam"), are you sure they didn't try? Did you try calling them? I've had numerous occasions from many wineries (OR and WA) where email is an afterthought. In any case, it is always sound business sense to follow up on something involving event planning (such as visiting a winery) with a quick phone call. Otherwise, I hope you'll understand if I don't care to further comment on your "Erath negative, Ste. Michelle positive" remarks, as the real test would be if this happened more than once, or was simply a one-time fluke.

Did you bother reading any of my previous posts? Guess not.

Now, about all these links (of which I've only posted a few, no more than anyone else)... Seeing how some people feel that providing links constitute marketing... I should comment that no one's forcing you to click on them. I personally enjoy it when people provide links to topics which support their comments, since it serves to help fill in the blanks for me about where they're coming from. If the links seem off-topic, such as the link to your Web site present in your email footer, I suppose that's a different matter, but it really doesn't bother me in any case.

I would recommend that anyone who doesn't like to see links in their inbox to consider reading up on David Weinberg's comments regarding Web philosophy.. the whole point of the Internet is to enable the free exchange of information and data. Weinberg argues against the regulation and restriction of the flow of data, as that is directly contradictory to the Internet's design. I'd gladly post a link so you could read it for yourself -- and consider what he has to say -- but I really don't care to have yet more people accuse me of blatant marketing or "boosterism".

However, since we're all chatting about the mere usage of links -- and not the qualitative benefits that might be arrived at upon visiting and reading the contents of those links... my reply to you in French was due to the fact that every one of your posts contains a link to a French-hosted Web site about a B&B in France... I should wonder now, who is going to accuse me of doing marketing for your business(?)...

As for my grammar, the last I checked, there's no enforced spell-checker on this or any other usenet group (anyone care to critique me on the fact I didn't capitalize the 'u' in Usenet)? I have also found that when people want to focus on the little details, it's typically because they cannot argue with what the person doing the writing has said... so forgive me if my inference (en francais) was incorrect that you're bored and looking for something to do.

I might add that if proper use of grammar is so important, you should consider petitioning Google groups -- or whichever interface for these Usenet systems you use in accessing them -- to install an online spell/grammer checker. Or simply, consider moving to China, where everything sent via the Internet is filtered by an array of "sanitizing" servers that prevent the free movement of thought.

As for my thoughts on all this, it seems that since rejoining this list after three years' absence, I've spent more time explaining, delving, re-explaining, wooing, and basically wasting my time here. If I recall, that was the reason why I gave up three years ago. Lots of static, little substantive. And that's too bad, because this list really has the potential to serve as a place for interactive discussions about wine-related topics.

Finally, if my writings do seem filled with marketing stuff -- sorry, Ian if you don't approve of "stuff", as I meant it in the American sense ('various things') as opposed to English sense ('get pregnant' or 'sod off') -- it's because yes, I am a marketer. I'm also a consultant. I look at and examine data all day long. I think about a lot of things. A big part of my job involves brainstorming, and that can manifest itself in my writings as an editorialized approach to a topic. "Local boosterism". "Marketing hype". "Manufactured controversy". If that's what people here of my comments, so be it. I for one would take that any day over some of the uncreative and dismissive responsives I have elicited for simply trying to share my thoughts on something that -- mistakenly -- I thought might be of interest and/or concern to others here.

David

There are no such examples because the concepts of "corporate management" and "retain a grasp on quality" are totally opposed to each other. Look at the crap Ravenswood churns out now. Maybe Erath was drifting for the last few years, anyway, and quality hasn't been a goal for years. But the worst part of Ch. Ste. Michelle Estates is that every bottle of wine they sell puts profits into a tobacco company so it can make more products that kill more people. Oh, did I mention that I don't smoke?

On the whole, I find almost the entire Ch. Ste. Michelle portfolio unremarkable, especially for some of their prices.

David Anders> Hi Dick,

(( I am not after grammar correctly or punctuation discussions here, just wine))

I spent the weekend out and about in the Oregon wine scene and did talk in more depth about the Erath Sale. I was shocked to learn from a few wineries, that Ste. Michelle Wine Estates is not the first corporate entry into the Oregon wine scene. I really don't care to exposed the other 5 wineries not locally owned for they are doing a very impressive and decided job of trying to hide that fact. The only difference is the other owners are not the size of Ste. Michelle Wine Estates and don't have the market muscle and history Ste. Michelle Wine Estates does either. But if Ste. Michelle Wine Estates is anything like the other 5 corporate owners ( which all but one has its home not in Oregon) then Erath should be fine and the new owner should do nothing but help increase production. Erath was looking to increase it's winery since it has max'd out its current home and this sale should let them do that.

But I still stand by my first comment and concern, only time will truly tell if this sell was a good thing or a bad thing for the Oregon wine industry as a whole.

Matt

Err David,

le/on 17 Jun 2006 22:15:22 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

Why? Normally one gets the trivia out of the way first.

That's my sig on this Newsgroup, not what I put on my email.

(which BTW is not proper English -- it should be "My mailbox is full to avoid spam"),

I say what I say to give a clue to my real email address. Sorry if that was too subtle for you.

Well, when I emailed them well in advance of leaving for my trip, and failed to get an answer, I did a follow up. After two attempts, I had too many other visits to arrange with wineries ike Chehalem, Patricia Green, Domaine Drouhin, Cristom, Bergström and so on, to bother chasing more than twice. Most of the small wineries throughout the west coast (loosely) were very competent and positive. As was Ste Michelle.

Yup, that's why I asked. I was interested to see what constituted a flurry of interest.

No, it's the only way in which it is considered permissable to give a business web site.

Not until you inserted this sentence. But that's not the relevant question. Do you chew or dip? I assume you do neither, so post a reply only if I assume incorrectly.

Cole

Thank you Matt.

Email me off-list about this, since AFW seems more preoccupied with grumpy, alcoholic, do-nothing, piss-ant rhetoric -- no sense wasting your insightful commentary here!

David

No, the two of you are solely to blame for the wrath you have incurred here. David, you with your manufactured controversy and your subsequent whining and pretended victimization by people who have forgotten more about wine than the two of you combined will ever know. And Matt, who I initially thought might have something useful to contribute here and who offered some opinions about the Washington wine industry that seemed to be worthwhile discussing. Then you admitted that your total knowledge about that industry was derived from visiting a few wineries around Leavenworth during a brief winter vacation.

Go form your own two-person Mutual Admiration Society and let the rest of us alone.

Cole

If you don't like what we're discussing, no one's forcing you to read it.

If it irritates you so much to see two old members rejoin this group and strike up a conversation, then be my guest and unsubscribe. Neither you nor any other individual owns this list. So long as we're playing by the rules, you have no grounds to stand on, and saying anything to the contrary only serves to reinforce that you're arguing it on subjective grounds alone.

I've taken a lot worse from a lot tougher people than you, and I never back down in the face of opposition, especially on a list designed to serve as a place to exchange ideas, because all that does is let the other guy win. Guess what? You lose. I'm still here, and am not going anywhere.

David

"David Anderson" wrote .........

Oh really?

Welcome to my kill-file

Cole, I am sorry if I led you to believe I am some Washington Wine Expert, I am not. 90% of my knowledge of the Washington wine scene comes from reading local reviews and articles and talking to people who know more then I do about the WA wine scene. You are correct I have only made two real trips, one to Leavenworth and one down the Washington side of the Columbia River. I have not been to any of the larger more known wine regions of Washington. It is not from a lack of interest more from a lack of time and money at this time. I have tasted a lot of WA wines at events here in Portland though and talked to the wineries reps at the events.

I don't feel my lack of personal trips into WA should prevent me from expressing opinions or ideas I have on the WA wine. Again, I was just using what I thought was true about WA to express my concerns on the Erath sale. If you read my post before this one, you will see I did find out there are a few other Corps in Oregon controlling wineries and I will say till I learned which wineries, I would have only been able to pick out 2 of the 5.

Matt

Cole wrote:

Finally! Some peace and quiet.

Hi Ian,

I agree. I think the ones who responded first deserved your business. It's too bad your initial inquiry didn't get a response. It's happened to me and others before, and it goes to show that a first impression can create a lasting impression.

The trick with that one is that all wineries are businesses. Does this mean posting a link to a winery web site (forget Oregon ones - how about Washington, California, Australian, etc.) within the body of a message is not permissable? Just looking for clarification on this.

Cheers,

David

You have achieved your marketing goals, now can we move on? How many moreposts on this?

What marketing goals? You must know something we don't - so please, do share.

We'd love to move onto a new topic, but that largely depends on whether others can stop flooding this thread with nitpickings on grammar and cultural insults.

David

You don't have to explain your credentials to anyone. The only thing that matters is you have an opinion and are wanting to share it with others. That you're actively publishing your writings is a sign that your work should speak for itself.

David