TN: 1999 Dom. Coteau de Bel-Air Chiroubles

I'm fascinated to see somebody else who disobeys the rules about drinking Chiroubles when it is 3 or 4 years old. We regularly buy both Morgon & Chiroubles from Roland Petit at Domaine de Montplain and both age very well. I am enjoying some 1998 Chiroubles and last year enjoyed a bottle of 1985 Morgon which had been stuck in a corner of the cellar. I agree with Mark that as the Morgon ages it becomes more like a Pinot Noir and loses what one thinks of as the true Gamay characteristics, developing more depth and weight as it ages. The Chiroubles ages differently and whilst I understand the reference to the Northern Rhone Syrah I am bound to say that I find it entirely sui generis.

Tim Hartley How many others are old Beaujolais fans I wonder?

This is interesting and I suppose it's something I'll learn as I get more experienced in my wine adventures. I thought Beaujolais wines were made to be drunk young. My understanding was that they (and Pinot Noirs for that matter) stayed pretty much the same over time. Was I going on incorrect information?

Lionel

Timothy Hartley wrote:

Well, I *did* have the advice of the vigneron to "wait 5 years before drinking it." In retrospect, it could easily have gone another 5-10, perhaps even developing more bouquet in the process (after all, the vigneron was drinking 50+ y.o. Fleurie [1])

I can accept that. It's hard to know what I would have made of it had I had it blind, but it did remind me of some Crozes I've had in recent years.

More than you might think. I've met quite a few on the Wine Internet, but I'd hazard that it's closely tied to that small subpopulace who've left the ubiquitous commercial "Bojopiffle" behind and found those small vignerons who continue to make "real wine." I can count on one hand the number of producers whose wines I'd be willing to cellar for any length of time.

Cheers! Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton

"Lionel" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

I would say that as far as Beaujolais are concerned, it might depend both on provenance and mode of production. The "typical" bojolpif with nose of marshmallow would be made using carbonic maceration, i e, intracellular fermentation not using yeast but the grape's internal emergency energy production system. These wines would not be likely to stand up for serious cellar time. Here, the vineyard will also play a role, the different crus such as Morgon typically standing up to time better than a village. As for Pinot Noir, they can and do change over time - sometimes dramatically so. As an example, a good Savigny-lès-Beaune may be very fruity and charming when 3-4 years old, but, after some further cellar time, change to something completely different, displaying true bouquet and the notes of maturity. Wonderful. One of the reasons you should always buy a few bottles more and lay down for cellaring.

HTH

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

I‘m sure you‘re right. I went to the ”Paques des Crus• a few years ago and was horrified by the generally low quality level — with some honourable exceptions. It is fair to say that tasting was not assisted by the fact that many of those exhibiting insisted on showing the previous year‘s bottled vintage which had only been in the bottle for a week or ten days. The more sensible ones had barrel samples and/or the previous vintage. It never ceases to amaze me how some growers do not thik through their sales technique, offering two or three days old wine, sometimes even four or five, which has simply been corked — no Vacuvin or other preservation attempt and then look surprised when you wonder very politely when the bottle was opened! Mind you they probably have to put up with a lot of freeloaders and those whose wine experience is very limited. The chap I buy my Morgon from — who could be straight out of Clochemerle and would definitely be pro-pissoir — greeted me on the first visit with an offer of his grandmother‘s cheese to ”help• me taste. He roared with laughter when I asked for an apple instead and we have got on very well ever since. They say it takes on rogue to recognise another.

Tim Hartley

One final thought: it appears to me (albeit totally unscientifically) that Cru Beaujolais are finally recovering from their decades-long depression of prices and prestige. I base this on the subjective impression that there are now more "hono[u]rable exceptions" than there were 10 years ago, or at least more that are now exported to the US. Further, prices for the top producers are definitely creeping up there after several decades of being stuck in single digit (USD) territory. That said, they still represent a marvelous red wine bargain and an important addition to the cellar for those moments that call for crisp, fruity reds.

I've been very fortunate (and selective) in the caves that I visit, so I rarely have a bad experience at one. In fact, it's usually quite a delightful experience. When visiting Marcel Lapierre in Morgon, he ran us through a tasting of 15 different barrel samples, encouraged us to create our own assemblage and compare them to his official one [a vivid and memorable demonstration of the art of winemaking], showed us the difference between his "normale" and "sans soufre" bottlings and then invited us outside to his courtyard for some cheese, sausage and bread (and yet more wine) -- what an afternoon that was! They aren't always so good, but I've been overwhelmingly impressed with the generosity and passion of the artisanal vignerons (and vignerines) of France.

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" wrote ......

I agree wholeheartedly Mark.

Although I have had many wonderful visits in vineyards and wineries in most of the winemaking counties of the world (with the glaring exception of South America) the vignerons Mike Tommasi took me to see in Bandol were so forthcoming and generous, I was humbled.

We walked the vineyards; we delved into barrels and many produced little treasures from w-a-y outside AOC guidelines for me to try.

I'm going to go back!!!!

So do I and my remembrance of M Petit was not intended to cast any slight on the vignerons (or vigneronnes) of France. Aprt from my own visits privately to vineyards, for many years I have been going with the British Association of the Jurade to Saint-Emilion and the generosity of the growers and their passsion for what they do never fails to impress.

Tim Hartley