OT: Laguna dining ripoff

in article snipped-for-privacy@mb-m05.aol.com, Dale Williams at snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam wrote on 8/4/04 12:28 PM:

Dale,

First..... We've lived in the area directly inland from Laguna for over 20 years and have been to French 75 several times, as well as to several of David Wilhelm's other restaurants. We have never had a bad meal or anything really egregious at any of them. French 75 has always been a totally pleasant experience. I certainly wouldn't call this anything even remotely near what I would have expected.

Second........ one would hope that any restaurant, certainly one of any significant caliber, would have properly trained staff and pay a high level of attention to details. Each of the specifics you encountered seems to me to be one in which a quality staff person would have handled things differently. If, somehow, the reservation was not properly taken, the hostess would be in a difficult situation, but should be skilled enough to handle it with no visible "attitude". The rest sounds like an inexperienced (maybe bordering on incompetent) waiter. He caused a situation that severely damaged the reputation of the restaurant. Admittedly, there were opportunities for you to have mitigated things, but that's really not the guests' responsibility.

I once took a party of four to a better (though chain) seafood place for an

8:30 PM dinner reservation on a Sunday. At 10PM the manager unceremoniously 'informed' us that they were closing and we would have to leave..... no apology whatsoever, no stacking of chairs on nearby tables to give us the hint, not sure what was said to the two other parties still finishing up nearby. Next day I called the corporate office of the company and asked for the CEO. A few days later the regional VP called me personally and was really very apologetic, advising that the manager had been spoken to and was in the process of being "re-trained".

I think David Wilhelm would like to know about your experience. You can find the company's address and phone on their site:

Oh, and when he sends you the gift certificate for a free dinner.... please e-mail and I'll send you my address so you can pass it along. ;o)

--snipped horror tale--

A few years ago, shortly after USAF retirement, I was working for a "major aerospace defense contractor" in the LA region. Went with wife on several restaurant excursions. Found that my experience with Michelin *** joints in Europe was no preparation for grand luxe dining in Southern CA.

First rule is that merely being there with ability to pay is not adequate for good service. You must be a "name" in LA. Great difference from places like Troisgras, Lameloise, Bocuse, Laserre, Girardet, et. al. If you aren't recognizable they are extending a privilege to an unworthy and they don't hesitate to let you know it.

Noteworthy and related was the stop at the Ritz-Carlton for an end-of-evening libation. SWMBO thought maybe an Armagnac. Menu for liquors revealed that Armagnacs available started at $160/drink and went skyward from there.

Bovine excrement. No one working for legal compensation pays those prices.

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" "Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights" Both from Smithsonian Books

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in article snipped-for-privacy@mb-m05.aol.com, Dale Williams at snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam wrote on 8/4/04 12:28 PM:

I got so caught up in defending the restaurant itself and acknowledging your horrible waiter that I overlooked the price issue. No-price menu "Specials" are often a source of consternation for me as well. I admittedly find it distasteful to have to ask the price, but know I must be ready for just about anything if I don't. A part of me really resents being put in the position of having to ask or later feeling the pain of not asking. With the market price of fresh lobster being what it can be, a 'surf and turf' (assuming it was lobster and not shrimp) would be a 'red flag' item.

$65 would certainly be on the upper end of the pain scale for me. I don't know that I'd go so far as to call it a rip-off (especially since I know that French 75 is frequented by locals all year, so I doubt they're just taking advantage of tourists- maybe all of us :ol) but I'd have to agree that twice the average entree makes the best case I've heard for announcing the prices.

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Personally I hate being told about a special without being told the price. I don't find it distasteful to ask the price at all. I find myself often asking the price even if I have no intention of ordering it.

[SNIP my blathering and the OP] , I do not know

I checked the site that Midlife gave, and yes, I have eaten at Chimayo at the Beach. It was a business meeting and the food was passable. This is probably their most casual property, and the wine list (or lack of) showed it.

On that same trip, we had recommendations for a board dinner, and the concierge had made reservations at French 75 (my wife remembered the name). As fate would have it, we discovered that the Huntington Beach Hyatt Regency had a "chef's table" right behind their restaurant. Why their own concierge didn't recommend THAT is beyond me, especially since I stated that we wanted a complete, elegant dining experience for ten with a "killer" wine list. We changed reservations, and the chef, the staff, and the sommelier made that an evening to remember. Board members still compliment me on the choice of dining, the fun had, and the wines, which were chosen by the sommelier for each course (I took that night off). We added a couple of wine-courses, and it was excellent!!!! After your experience, I'm glad we made our little discovery. It also saved having limos down to Laguna Beach for all the diners.

Hunt

Good example. Again the wait-staff should have done their job. At Prince of Wales at the Del Coronado, Kobe beef was being served at $75/portion. Our waiter graciously noted this as he listed the "specials, "even though some of the other entres were in the $45-50 range. We were informed beforehand, and there were no surprises - it was worth every penny, but had no mention been made, I could have suffered a coronary, since we had six guests.

Hunt

One time, at a resaurant called "Nine" in Chicago (entree prices ranged from $15-$25), I ordered one of the unlisted *appetizers* (Rock Crab, which I never tried before that). I expected the fancy-looking mixed-drink I had while waiting for our table to be the shocker of the evening. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be the Rock Crab appetizer for $50. I should have known to ask (the place did look a lot trendier than their prices dictated). Other than that, the evening was top notch. But it left a negative impression, and I've still never managed to go back (though I drive by the place at least once a month).

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Until I visited another Chicago restaurant called "Phoenix". This is my favorite Chinese restaurant inside the city itself. The manager recogizes us since we dine there regularly, and always comes over to say hello. I was looking for something a little more than average Chinese, so I asked "What's the best thing on the menu that you would recommend?" His reply, "The best thing is not on the menu, but I can have it prepared for you." *RED FLAG* He then goes on to describe the dish (ironically, crab). They're not gonna get me too. "How much," I ask? "$16.95." "Great, I'll take it." When they brought the crab, it was HUGE. "Wow, what a deal," I thought. "Now I can write off the Rock Crab incident and sleep nights again" (exagerated humor). But when the bill arrived, I saw what I was not expecting. The $16.95 was per pound and the crab was 3.5 pounds. I called the manager over to explain. He apologized for the misunderstanding, knocked it down to just under 3 pounds, and sends us over two glasses of the house Gewurztraminer *every time* we visit (not a bad wine with Chinese at all).

Kindest Regards, V

Restaurant Phoenix is our favorite spot for dim sum in Chicago, but we've never had dinner there (heard good things about it, though). It's nice to hear how well they handled what could have been a very ugly scene. It also sounds like you handled the situation with good grace.

Mark Lipton

Our favorite for Dim Sum, located not too far away, is a place called Happy Chef. Food is awesome, service is tolerable, although the atmosphere can be a bit irritating (right down to the disposable plastic table cloths). But you do get good bang for the buck, and I enjoy theirs more than I do Phoenix's. If you're looking for a tasty bite to eat on a Sunday afternoon, and you're in the area, be sure to check it out.

I find it strange that asking the customer how they want their meat cooked applies only to beef. I've never been asked how I wanted my lamb cooked, or pork or venison for that matter. Why is beef different?

I have been to places where someone ordering a steak is told "the chef cooks this medium-rare - is this OK?" Requests to have it done some other way are honoured, but with about the same grace as requests for salt and pepper. I rather like that, but then, I prefer my steak medium-rare.

Is this just a matter of opinion, of personal taste? Or is there good reason for "a point" being the standard degree of cookedness, as "al dente" is for pasta?

--brian

A good restaurant asks you how you want any meat, unless it is a predetermined 'doneness', as in baked, stewed etc.

I always order one grade less done than I want it in any place unfamiliar to me

- medium rare too often results in something without any detectable pink in the middle.

I will say that I once sent back two consecutive attempts at rare lamb and ended up eating nothing in disgust. They got zero tip that night from a table of 6.

IMHO Dale should not have tipped at all, given the level of service he received.

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I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say, with one slight reservation on this point. Certainly in the USA, everyone asks. But in some countries (Italy, for example; there may be others I'm not familiar with), nobody asks. In Italy it's assumed that you want it rare, and that's how they serve it unless the customer specifies otherwise.

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It isn't different--at least not always. I've often been asked that question about lamb, pork, venison, buffalo, tuna, etc.