Would varietal labelling of French wine serve any purpose?

Dan, I live in the USA and 25 years ago had my first Bordeaux. I did not know what kind of grapes it was...all I new is "I liked it".

What would the difference really be if I had never had Cabernet Sauv before either? Bordeaux which is geographical or cab sauv which is varietal. Assume I never had either.

Perhaps Americans in USA are more varietal oriented...big deal.

I am not an Opus One fan but you know they did not have any problems selling out each year. Nor does Phelps Insignia. You know what big Danno....it does not mention variety on the label either!!!!

Dan-O (THIS has been a lively discussion!)

Max Hauser wrote:

I think the French stopped putting Pinot Chardonnay on Macon Village bottles exported to the US 15 years ago--Producersin France are advised to put varietal names on their North American labels for wines sold in supermarkets and big bog stores--Costco, Trader Joes--

Consumers often write down whats on a label when they find a wine they like in a restaurant. Often times they take down one or to words. When I worked retail a customer would come in and say they had "Fattoria" Chianti Classico at Luigi's House of Garlic in Little Italy and want a case. So I call the restaurant and find out what chiantis are on their wine list. Hopefully they have only one with Frattoria on the label. Hopefully the wholesaler still has some in stock and when the customer pays 50% over wholesale cost, they don't realize they paid 200-300% above cost at the restaurant. Odds are that the restaurant bought the wine on a "close-out" and still marked it up based on origonal wholsale price. All this are implicit reasons a restaurant does not want a retail outlet "showing them up".

You'd like to find more like it, right? However, what if that Bordeaux was merlot-based and you then bought another that was cab-based?

Whether wines do or not, I feel they should. I wouldn't force them to, though.

Dimitri

in article kdJKe.4097$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net, Richard Neidich at snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote on 8/11/05 7:25 AM:

This thread is far too long to have read all the posts, so jumping in here may repeat thoughts I didn't see, but this subject has intrigued me for too long to not comment.

"Foreign language"....... If I had to sum up my personal lack of comfort with wine labels based on regions and chateux, that would pretty much on target. In addition to actually BEING in a foreign language, the whole thing is much like that as well. Someone also used the word "lazy" ...... and that is certainly a factor.

I will completely admit to a definite inability to become fluent in "translations" of French or Italian regions (DOC's and all) into New World varietal terminology. That's totally my fault, but I really do believe that it's more than just laziness........ like so many other things, it has a lot to do with practice. If 90% of the wines I drink are New World, I just don't seem to get enough practice so that knowing one region from another becomes natural and easy by region. Other than the basics, I'm still pretty much lost.

I've even tried using flash cards to memorize, and that helps, but it's like some people are good with learning languages and others not. I want to be able to know that a Red Rhone is mostly Syrah without having to memorize it, and have my brain know what that means the same way it knows what Syrah means.

Demitri, that is in part the point...

Bordeaux Cab or Merlot based when its from France its a profile based upon terroir not variety.

Sometimes I have a hard time telling the difference of Cab vs Merlot dominant from Bordeaux Classified wines.

Even a few from California the Merlot is very Cab Like. But there are very few really good merlots from Nor Cal -Napa in my opinion. I think Sawyer Cellars, Duckhorn and perhaps Matanzas Creek are my stand outs of Nor Cal producers.

I think Producer, Geography are more important to me then just variety.

Hell I recently had a JL Chave 1996 Hermitage with Dinner at Chez Panisse in Berkley and it was very Bordeaux like but was Syrah...and not like any Syrah I have ever had from Austrailia or California.

LOL!

LOL again!

Two LOLs in one sentence!

True, but would it help you appreciate the wine, or even give you an idea of what it tasted like? A cepage might give you a rough idea, but terroir and winemaking practices can make a huge difference.

I recently tasted the d'Arenberg Bonsai Vine 2001 and the Lost Valley Shiraz 2002. Infanticide, I know.

Both have the cepage on the front label. The Bonsai Vine is 70% Grenache, 25% Shiraz and 5% Mourvedre, whereas the Lost Valley is 100% Shiraz.

Both were tasted blind (though the identity of the bottles was known to me) and the Bonsai Vine was consistently identified as the varietal Shiraz. This was from an experienced group who have been tasting together for over 10 years and who have experienced a lot of Aussie Shirazes and Aussie Rhone blends from most of the vintages from the

The cepage gave no idea of what the wine was going to be like. The terroir would have helped a bit, the Bonsai is McLaren Vale and the Lost Valley (though bottled as Central Victoria) is in the (not yet recognised) Upper Goulburn Valley. The best guide to the taste experience was probably the fact that one had d'Arenberg on the label and one didn't. Winemaker's house style overcame all else.

I like to see the cepage somewhere, but as far as I'm concerned, the back label is fine. I'm not so lazy as to be unable to turn a bottle round. Certainly from a UK supermarket POV the current trend in the less than GBP 10 a bottle range is towards branded wines with the brand being given huge prominance over any description of the contents, whether sub-country regional or varietal.

James James Dempster (remove nospam to reply by email)

You know you've had a good night when you wake up and someone's outlining you in chalk.

Btw, I just found a label reading "Bordeaux Sauvignon":

or

In theory, this should be illegal?

M.

Michael Pronay wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pronay.com:

theoretically illegal, and just plain weird as most white Bordeaux are Semillion/SB blends and Sauvignon by itself is a tad more confusing than informative since the web page but not the bottle indicates the white thus SB of the wine.

jcoulter wrote in news:Xns96B05825FB64Byourvacation@216.196.97.136:

And note the suggested serving temp of 9C or 48F chill that sucker.

And if you click the "Next" link on that URL you will see an illegally labelled Burg. These are not uncommon in the UK.

Steve Slatcher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Hi, I have a question, then. Is this "legal"?

I have to say I don't remember what this is like, it's been a while since I tasted it...

Possibly :-)

And if the buyer falls for that, whose fault is it.

So if it's on the front label, it is governed and verifiable but if you put it on the back label you can lie ? That's not consumer protection in my book.

BTW, aren't grape varieties "guaranteed by the appellation system and the system of checks and controls around it" ?

LOL

Agreed.

Andy

enoavidh wrote in news:Xns96B06AE1D5F6Eenoavidhyahoocom@136.142.185.40:

IIRC a rather mediocre PN for the price. the similarly labeled Chardonnay is fairly oaky as opposed to their non varietal labeled white Burg which is superior at a slightly lower price. It seems that varietal also describes a style of manufacture in some peoples minds. if it is Chard it must be oaky, if Burgundy it is allowed a certain native elegance.

"JEP62" wrote in news:1123858357.664273.324550 @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

"Avec la garrigue, jamais de la fatigue." is the motto of Domaine de la Garrigue in Vacqueyras. (they are unfiltered and use, according to them, almost no SO2)

jcoulter wrote in news:Xns96B0720A19Eyourvacation@216.196.97.136:

Yeah, I was thinking it wasn't particularly memorable. Either of them. I think I paid $13.99US in Pennsylvania for the PN, and it looks like the Chardonnay is $12.99; the Macon Villages is $10.99 here and I can get it at the tiny store up the street, so it's okay for everyday use ;)

The government, of course ;-)

No, you cannot lie, but the back label must be much smaller than the front one and in smaller characters, so that the consumer doing a quick comparison will base it mainly on the front label, which contains all the inportant information. Now of course you may have noticed that France on average has the most sober bordering on dull-and-boring labels, compared to Spain and Italy...

Yes.

The "decret d'appellation" is the legal definition of the appellation, and contains the rules about grape varieties etc..

The actual checking of the winemaker's work is done by the comité d'agrément (the committee of peers that tastes the wines blindly each year and agrees to give the AOC label to a winemaker's particular vintage), by the customs and the fraud squad (who periodically check on what is planted, on what is going on in the cellar).

Cheers

enoavidh wrote in news:Xns96B073E0A9C9Aenoavidhyahoocom@136.142.185.40:

It is the Macon that I prefer! but since I am currently working on a supply of La Vignee 2001 at @ $5 a bottle . . .everyay expectations are pretty high (the 2003 is available at my local supermarket for $14.99)

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:14:26 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

Not knowing the Polish plumber concerned, I can't say. However, you know perfectly well that the INAO is extremely directive about what can, must and must not be on front labels. Nearly as directive as they are about what cepage may and may not be used, whether sugar may or may not be added, whether acid may or may not be added, so on ad infinitum and WAY past nauseam. I was slightly parodying, but there's a great deal of truth in what I say. OK, in the Languedoc, they have more freedom in what they may and may not do and say on labels, but in many other regions, they have virtually NO freedom.

I don't share the obsession of varietally anal retentives about what exact proportion of grapes go into any particular blend, but I really don't see why the heck some bureaucrat in either Brussels or Paris, Reims or Bordeaux should tell Francis Boulard or the lovely Mireille Daret what s/he can or can't put the cepages on their labels, back OR front.