Age of vines and good wine

They do take a while. But, in the 4th year you should be able to have a full harvest. In France the Château-wines usually have their first harvest in the

Mike, have you tried any Marchel Foch grown from other vineyards in the area? The reason I ask is because maybe it is the variety you do not like and not the fault of your vines. I have only tasted the variety a couple times and I did not like it at all but I know this was not enough sampling to condemn the entire variety. There may be some who make excellent wine from this grape. It could also be a lack of aging as Ed maintains. I know that I am not at all crazy about Chambourcin when it is young but after about four years it really improves a lot - at least to my taste buds.

Mike,

How are you fermenting the grapes? I have made Foch twice with ok results. Then I tasted some made using carbonic maceration (CM). After tasting that, it is the only way I will try to make Foch in the future. That is if I come across the grape being available again. Lost my local source here in Indiana. The nose to a CM Foch is most excellent. The only rap I have read against CM is that the shelf life is not as long as a typical ferment. From my taste buds, the trade off is well worth it. If you can, try to find some made CM style, you will not believe the difference

Lee

I read in "Northern Winework" that there are many ways to make Marechal Foch. The authors reference Philippe Coquard at Wollersheim Winery in Wisconsin. He is said to make three different types based on the ripeness:

A rose at 19 brix, ph 2.9 and TA 1.5%

A nouveu style at 21 brix, pH 3.1 and TA 1.3% (using semi-carbonic masceration)

Ageable table wine harvested at 23 brix, pH 3.3, TA 1.0%.

Perhaps you could find reference information from him. Art Schubert Traverse City, Michigan

When first pressed I find the juice wonderfully complex. The finished product after 2-3 years is weak with poor flavour.

When young it is quite acidic so I am considering CM, but don't have much experience with it. My understanding is that the wine is left at minus 3-4 C for several days to let the tartaric acid crystals form, and the wine is drawn off, leaving these acids behind. Is this correct?

Boatman

Mike,

My associate winemakers who do CM do it at cellar temp. They just seal up the container the ferment is done in as well as possible. 90 percent of the ferment is done in complete bunches of grapes. The grapes are then pressed after the ferment is complete. The CM is "supposed" to reduce acid via the process itself. In the midwest, high acid with hybrids is a definite problem. What I have tasted has been very good in terms of aroma and balance.

Some makers in the group use 7 gal buckets with the snap on lids to keep the ferment sealed. They put the whole bunches in with hydrated yeast poured over the bunches and let it go. No, it doesn't blow the lid off either. I tried it with the bucket once and tied the lid down for security. Did the ferment at cellar temp.

There are probably people with more experience in the group who may have input.

Lee,

Thanks, I will give it a try.

Did your fellow say how long to let it sit, or how to tell when the process was complete? A conventional primary ferment for me is about 6-9 days at 65-75 F. What is their cellar temp?

B.