Recommendation for a french red 2002 "de garde"

"Christian Lehmann" wrote in news:8dc8b$420bd542$508cd9bb$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.surfino.com:

Hi Christian,

I suppose that if it has to be red (why no Sauternes, instead?), Burgundy is the answer, since it is supposed to be a great vintage. However, if it was me, I would go for a Chateau Margaux 2002 which seemed to me to have plenty of fruit to allow for such a garde. Or, if money is a concern, I think that Leoville Barton 2002 could do the same work since I found it very concentrated and hermetic last year at the Chateau and it has a good track of longevity (in fact, it is said to be one of the longest lived GCC still done in a very traditional way, that's to say, not making it softer for earlier consumption).

Best,

Santiago

] "Christian Lehmann" wrote in ] news:8dc8b$420bd542$508cd9bb$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.surfino.com: ] ] > Hello, ] > ] > which 2002 red french wine would you recommend to store until at least ] > 2018? I would buy this one for my daughter, born in 2002, for her to ] > taste when she reaches drinking age (16 here in Germany). I have a ] > special favor for Southern Rhone (because of many wonderful vacations ] > we spent there), but this vintage was supposedly quite bad in this ] > area. Would a Bordeaux or Burgundy be a better choice? I appreciate ] > any opinion, thanks in advance! ] > ] > Christian ] ] Hi Christian, ] ] I suppose that if it has to be red (why no Sauternes, instead?), Burgundy ] is the answer, since it is supposed to be a great vintage. However, if it ] was me, I would go for a Chateau Margaux 2002 which seemed to me to have

Hi,

Definitely stay away from the southern Rhone, unless you're willing to really do some picking and choosing. There may be a few bottles with that sort of longevity in 2002, but generally the vintage was problematic.

I think Bourgogne, too. Should be a few that will go the distance without destroying your wallet. How about a Clos des lambrays?

Nice to see your post, Santiago, seems you had gone missing for a while. We need more Iberians here obviously. Planning a trip to the Anjou anytime soon?

-E

Burgundy probably will offer the most choices. If you can find a copy of "The Vine", January 2004, Clive Coates tasted a huge number of red Burgundy wines from 2002. He also has a list of the ones he considers best as well as individual tasting notes. The best wines seem to need until about 2010-2011 to be fully ready, and many should hold many more years. It probably is not a year for keeping for many decades.

Coates' list of top wines is too long for me to repeat here, and I have no idea how much you would be willing to spend. I will mention just a few. Nuits-Saint-Georges Pruliers, Vaucrains or Les Saint-Georges from Henri Gouges; Vosne-Romanee Suchots from Robert Arnoux, Sylvain Cathiard, Jean Grivot, or Jadot; Gevrey-Chambertin Clos Saint-Jacques from Sylvie Esmonin, Fourrier, Jadot, or Armand Rousseau. If you are willing to pay considerably more, some choices are: Grands-Eschezeaux from Rene Engel, Gros Frere & Soeur, Dominique Laurent or Nicolas Potel; Clos deTart; Richebourg from Etienne Grivot, Anne Gros, Gros Frere & Soeur, Alain Hudelot-Noellat, or Meo-Camuzet.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net from my email address. Then add snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com . I do not check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

Emery Davis wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@address.com:

We usually travel to Anjou in October, but it does not depend completely on us, since our travels to the zone are always work related.

I think there are other Iberians lurking this newsgroup, and I usually read but do not post since most of the discussion is about wines that are unavailable to me or wines on which I cannot add anything interesting.

Best,

Santiago

Salut/Hi Christian Lehmann,

le/on Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:42:07 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

It is often said that Burgundy is a more feminine wine, and that it often appeals more to women than red Bordeaux does.

So you might like to look to a classic long lived red Burgundy from the Cote d'Or. A grower like Henri Gouges in Nuits St Georges is a possibility, although others will doubtless come up with other suggestions. THE classic domaine is of course Domaine de Romanee Conti, and any of their wines will be just coming into perfection then.

BUT, may I make a suggestion? Sweet whites keep well, and often appeal to relatively uneducated palates and 2002 was a great year for them.

Something like a 1st Growth Sauternes/Barsac, or a top Monbazillac might well give a lot of pleasure to your daughter.

By the way, I do hope you as a parent are allowed to let your children taste wine to accompany a meal before their 16th birthday. In my opinion, one reason why so many countries have a wine problem among their young is the stupid legislation which creates a demand for a forbidden pleasure amongst a sector of the community most in need of rebellion.

So treat her as the mediterranean peoples treat their children, introducing wine to them as a regular and agreeable part of the meal - even diluting it with water at first.

Well, delurk you Iberians. :) Actually I'm interested in reading notes about wines I don't know that much about. Spain would be near the top of that list. What's more internet retailers are now starting to offer some bottles from Spain -- even here in France -- that look quite interesting. So keep the notes coming, you can teach the rest of us ignorent types something.

-E

"Christian Lehmann" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:8dc8b$420bd542$508cd9bb$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.surfino.com...

Thanks to all posters so far, I have a pretty good idea now on what to look for. Burgundy will very likely be the choice, I have very little experience with wines from this area yet, but I now seek to try some in the next months.

Best wishes Christian

Emery Davis wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@address.com:

Emery,

I will be honest and say that I lack the ability of tracking all the wines that I taste or drink (I am more a drinker than a taster). Also, I am not very good in describing wines. I would love to have the ability of Bill Spohn or Dale Williams whose notes I read with delight.

However, if anyone wants some information about any Spanish wine, and I can be of any help, I am willing to offer some information, as I have done in the past.

From your previous message, should I guess that you are located in Anjou? Last year we had a terrific time visiting Pascal Laffourcade at Domaine de la Echarderie, Mark Angeli at Domaine de la Sansonniere and Patrick Baudoin. Lovely wines, charming people, a lot of love for their work.

Which other vignerons do you recommend for a possible next visit?

Best,

Santiago

] Emery Davis wrote in ] news: snipped-for-privacy@address.com: ] > ] > Well, delurk you Iberians. :) Actually I'm interested in reading ] > notes about wines I don't know that much about. Spain would be near ] > the top of that list. What's more internet retailers are now starting ] > to offer some bottles from Spain -- even here in France -- that look ] > quite interesting. So keep the notes coming, you can teach the rest ] > of us ignorent types something. ] ] ] Emery, ] ] I will be honest and say that I lack the ability of tracking all the wines ] that I taste or drink (I am more a drinker than a taster). Also, I am not ] very good in describing wines. I would love to have the ability of Bill ] Spohn or Dale Williams whose notes I read with delight. ]

I think you're with most of us on that. I don't really track everything either, and only post a note when it seems something is noteworthy.

Bill and Dale obviously are a) obsessed and b) have too much time on their hands to write it all up. :) I enjoy the copious notes too.

] However, if anyone wants some information about any Spanish wine, and I can ] be of any help, I am willing to offer some information, as I have done in ] the past. ]

I'll remember that your lurking about then.

] From your previous message, should I guess that you are located in Anjou?

No, but thanks to our marvy new autoroutes I'm only about an hour away. I'm up north in calvados country. Although there are some folks growing gamay not far from here, the closest "real" wines are from jasnieres.

] Last year we had a terrific time visiting Pascal Laffourcade at Domaine de ] la Echarderie, Mark Angeli at Domaine de la Sansonniere and Patrick ] Baudoin. Lovely wines, charming people, a lot of love for their work. ] ] Which other vignerons do you recommend for a possible next visit? ]

I know Baudoin is one of Mike T's favorites, and is making some lovely wines. Probably a top reference in the entire area. I like Jean-Pierre Chené at Dom Ambinos for the SGN CdL, also some very quaffable and affordable light Anjou red, if you like the style. Dom Roullet makes a fine CdL and also some very nice cremant. Ogereau has en excellent CdL as well as a very fine dryer chenin. Of course there is Nicolas Joly...

On the subject of biodynamics in another thread, of course Joly is a sort of ambassador for the movement. Is Baudoin biodynamic, does anyone know?

Ian called it "neo-steinerite" or words to that effect, but wouldn't "classico-steinerite" be more appropriate? :\

-E

Salut/Hi Emery Davis,

le/on Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:23:54 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

Replying to your A28 comment in your message to me. I have that running between Amiens and Rouen, but I didn't know it was going elsewhere. Interesting.

I have to say that my usual route up from us to Le Havre (our usual port for the UK) is up A20 which has the very great virtue of being toll-free down to Brive from Vierzon and not too busy, and thence up A71, A10 leaving just before Paris, to go via Rambouillet, Versailles and out on the A14. Will A28 be a viable alternative?

I like his wines very much too, though I've also seen criticism of them as being unsubtle.

Grin. Indeed.

I don't think so. On the other hand. he is a member of Sapros, which quite rightly eschews the use of any chaptalisation, reverse osmosis and artificial cryoextraction in making sweet wines.

Grin. Perhaps.

I should have added that I've had some excellent wines from adherents of Biodymanic principles, and that not all of them have adopted all the magic mumbo-jumbo. On the other hand, unlike Michael Tomassi I've had some disappointing wine from a Biodynamic producer. So I accept that most people prepared to go to the trouble of adopting the principles are likely to make good wines, though I am not certain that it's due to the Biodynamics more than the generally high standards of care that they use.

] Salut/Hi Emery Davis, ] ] le/on Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:23:54 +0100, tu disais/you said:- ] ] ] >] From your previous message, should I guess that you are located in Anjou? ] >

] >No, but thanks to our marvy new autoroutes I'm only about an hour ] >away. ] ] Replying to your A28 comment in your message to me. I have that running ] between Amiens and Rouen, but I didn't know it was going elsewhere. ] Interesting. ] ] I have to say that my usual route up from us to Le Havre (our usual port for ] the UK) is up A20 which has the very great virtue of being toll-free down to ] Brive from Vierzon and not too busy, and thence up A71, A10 leaving just ] before Paris, to go via Rambouillet, Versailles and out on the A14. Will A28 ] be a viable alternative? ]

I think it will indeed. It will connect Tours - Le Mans - Alencon - Rouen. There is also the A88 which will connect Alencon Caen, but that won't be finished until 2008 IIRC. The A28 will be finished this year. It currently takes me over 2 hours to get to Rouen, that will soon be 45 minutes! :)

I think that's where most of us agree. You have to be such a cussed perfectionist to even consider biodynamics, that's likely to show up in all areas of your winemaking.

As you may recall I was educated in the Waldorf (Steinerite) system -- e.g. Steiner School NY -- and although these are often excellent schools one must take the anthroposophical hooey with a grain of salt (or aspirin...)

-E