Guardian - Beer-v-Wine with food.

Following up to MikeMcG

the tax burden on a very cheap wine being % high, it does not take much to work out why its poor. I think selecting reasonable wine takes about the same amount of expertise as getting a good pint. The only trick being look to the unfashionable countries and don't read writers who talk about "getting plimsolls" etc.

Following up to Judith Umbria

Price, with alcohol, has a lot to do with taxation. I could bring a truckload of wine back from Spain at very competitive pricing, the chancellor does not like it though!

I think red wine and beer both go well with cheese. Although I prefer wine with soft runny cheese, (but that might just be the mental association between continental cheese and wine). Where price does differ between wine and beer is you don't get the premium end in beer, while with wine you get the £100 bottle scenario. I have only ever tried a very few expensive wines and sadly they were much better than cheaper ones although only worth the money if you have nothing else to spend it on.

Following up to Jeff Pickthall

Who was "well said"? You have stripped all the post you are replying too and not given the attribution your software probably set up for you!

Following up to Martyn Cornell

I rather agree with that. I take no notice of all the fluff you get with wine. IMHO, the taste of wine is all pretty similar compared with food. Same goes for beer. But nobody writes reams about the taste of Herdwicke mutton compared with Exmoor. IMO the reason so much b**** gets talked about wine is to validate what is really just drug taking. Also, in the past, wine had the advantage of being foreign and exotic while beer was domestic.

Following up to Martyn Cornell

Judith is talking about herself there, if my reading is correct.

and Judith is in Italy (Umbria was a clue) where the situation is different from UK, note she says "local wines" and "cheap" not words that go together with english wine!.

Martyn Cornell wrote in news:BC069445.AE0% snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk:

You are indeed adept at stating the conclusion you have reached, but you do not qualify these by stating how you reached them. Without these, they are mere opinions, imho :-)

In message , Martyn Cornell writes

It's not irrelevant. I think you 'got up several people's noses' with the wild generalisation that "most wine is either cheap muck or overpriced not-much-better-than-muck." It's not that most wine is muck anymore than most beer is muck - it's where you're buying it, and what YOU choose, that determines quality/cost/value for money.

Maybe you're spending too much time in pubs and judging wine by what they offer? Pubs are one of the worst offenders (this is a generalisation) in offering low quality wine at high prices. One of my locals which offers an excellent pint of Palmers (a Bridport brewery) has Hirondelle and Liebfraumilch for the wine drinkers! If you go to a wine bar the odds of getting a good wine dramatically increase, but don't hope for a good choice of well kept cask ales in the same place.

That doesn't work. Within 5 miles of my home I can buy both real ale and nitro (I don't actually buy that) at anything between 1.50 and 3.50 a pint for either of them. I can also buy a glass of Chateauneuf du Pap, or Premier cru Chablis, for less than a pint of real ale. Where I drink, and consequently what I pay, is determined by going to the right establishment for what I want to drink.

Following up to Big G

I reckon on balance there is far more rubbish beer than wine out there (I include lager). The main problem I have with wine is the mark up in restaurants in UK.

OH I must agree. LOL I have been looked down on for my taste in wine. I am interested in how it tastes rather than the label. The only thing I am fussy about is my champagne. I rarely drink it but when I do it has to be Moet.

Ophelia

Thanks Mike.. I just wrote something similar but deleted it when I saw yours. You said it so much better:))

Our Judith is never rude to people Martyn as you would know if you were here often

Ophelia

The secret is to drink better wine :-) Honest! A £2 bottle becomes a £10 house wine; a £10 wine will get knocked out at £20/25 IME.

Following up to Martyn Cornell

I would expect to find a much wider spread of price on wine than beer given the way wine making is approached with grapes being differentiated, some being barrel matured for long periods and others not, while beer has a smaller "spread", if you see what I mean.

Following up to Ophelia

trouble with x post threads.

agree with that. I take no notice of all the fluff you

snippage about lamb, which I haven't a clue whether you are blowing smoke.

Also, in the past, wine had the

Mike, I am surprised at this insular view coming from you! In much larger portions of the world, beer is exotic and wine the daily drink. Do you REALLY think all wines taste similar? I don't. There are many I don't like -- although I am told they are good. There are many I drink rarely just because they go with foods I don't want to eat often. Others are more general and can be drunk with peanuts or crisps. There's a commonality among certain wines, but in a flight tasting, the differences dance on your tongue! Next time you are in Italy, I will shut up and we will drink wine. We can do Montalcino and have 6 Brunellos!

Hmm. You're right. I have to check the NG in Google now which is nowhere near as good as my old software.

Anyway, I was replying to the Martyn Cornell post of 16/12.

JP

Even if you liked Thunderbird, I would not sneer at you. I would not drink with you, but I wouldn't sneer. Moet, eh? I desire crisp + dry in a sparkling wine. If it has that and isn't too appley, I drink it. I am happy before, during and after. If it tastes a little beery, then I eat some fish and that straightens that out. At nineteen when I had my first champagne I decided never to drink anything else. Life didn't turn out that way, but I bet I've managed more than many!

Following up to Judith Umbria

drinker and pairer.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about your knowledge of beer!

Sure, I don't think otherwise. But in *UK* that is the historic situation.

In comparison to the ways wine experts talk of them, yes I think they do. My point about lamb is that there are just as big differences in taste but nobody says a word about it. Like corn fed chicken. Also nobody (well hardly anybody) talks about our native beer the way they talk about wine, you don't get some poncy bloke in a striped shirt saying "are you getting a little grass?". Beer is at best just drunk, or at worse ignored, by the chattering classes. This is probably something you wouldn't really be conscious off as youre not in the UK and doubly so not being a beer drinker.

(Judith, British beer is religion here, I'm a card carrying CAMRA member from day 1, lager and the big brewers are the enemy, its war!)

Sure, but that doesn't suit my argument today :-) Get in some good Amerone and i'll be there! Or a barrel of Theakstons Old Peculier, although it might be hard to source!

PS Ribolitto tonight, ideal for below 0C, beer or wine? :-)

Wine! Something round and fruity, young, even a novello. I like an ordinary Sangiovese with it.

Isn't it fairer to compare one glass of wine to half a pint of beer?