Guardian - Beer-v-Wine with food.

Naming them is one thing, ever spent any time with them?

The second on the list has a propensity for being ratted every time I've met him (maybe it's perpetual) the others tend to be surprisingly good company and far less boorish than the wine writers I've met. (I think we should steer clear of comments about celebrity chefs)

It takes only a few hours research to wander the halls of Tesco, Sainsbury, and other supermarkets, add in the likes of Thresher and maybe an Odd-Bins and you have a list of available wines and beers.

From there you can get the names of the commonly promoted wines and the same for beers.

Most people can manage to figure out that if the big suppliers have a wider range of decent beer than they do of wine (and few wine buffs would rhapsodise about the range at the outlets above, just mention possible decent buys) then it is likely that you can obtain a decent beer more easily than a decent wine.

That's not to say there aren't bad beers on sale there (I see "Bud" regularly enough to be convinced of that) nor that there are no decent wines in supermarkets. It's just the proportions we're talking about.

By the way, I presume you used "imho" in a deeply ironic sense.

You're welcome to the content of my cat's litter tray any time. (He's called Moet just in case you were confused)

Actually it's a sad fact that the majority of wine available is indeed sub-standard.[1]

The better wines tend not fit the buying profile of the supermarket users and hence are not stocked to any great degree. Some stock, but once a TV celebrity mentions this "great little number" from supermarket xxxx or the local garden centre or wherever then the stock goes and the re-order suddenly went up in price and it's out of range price wise again. (A common complaint from a work colleague)

At one time the appearance of a decent single malt on a supermarket shelf was about as likely as a pile of rocking horse droppings, these days you find a few. Maybe wine hasn't made that journey yet.

Ah, you mean like the brewers differentiate between different varieties of hops and malt to help them produce a wider range of flavours and aromas in the finished product? Or the habit of producing some beers for consumption within a short period and others are produced at different strength with the intention that they be given some maturation period (years)?

The headers on Jeffs posting suggest he was probably using a web mail interface - notorious for doing funny things to the composition.

However the threading would lead one to believe that he was commenting on Martyn Cornells posting of 17th Dec - Message-ID:

BTW. Polite use suggests that replies come after the item to which you are replying.

Hit the escape key occasionally - that's entertaining ;-)

Or not as the case may be after typing a long item and expecting the spell check you don't have because you're not using your normal software to kick in so you hit escape before the end of "CAMRA" or whatever...

Been there done that, hate web mail with a vengeance.

in article Xns94555106C8542BigG@192.61.239.93, Big G at snipped-for-privacy@prevent.my.disclosing wrote on 18/12/03 07:57:

All (apart from Barrie, who's won silver, and Tim) winners of the BGBW Beer Writer of the Year Award - which, as it happens, so am I, for 2003.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Most wine in this country is sold at a price point by the retailers and bought at a price point by the consumers (hence the old joke "£2.99 - my favourite year ...") and given the impact of duty, shipping costs, retailer's margin etc the value of the wine inside the bottle on most lines is going to be not a lot - work it out for yourself:

"The global average cost of a bottle of wine is shared roughly as follows:

If, because it's new and unfamiliar, a particular line is sold at a price that represents value for money, and captures sales, it rapidly rises in price in subsequent years - for example, South African Chenin Blanc and Chilean Sauvignon Blanc, which were cheap in the mid-1990s and are not, largely, now ... because in the wine world, unlike the beer world, if you don't want muck, you have to pay more. The average price of a bottle of wine sold in a British shop in 2001 was £4.65, which means the modal price point was £3.99, and the value of the grapes in that modal bottle was less than

in article QqwkNEPKrZ4$ snipped-for-privacy@news.posting, Malcolm Loades at snipped-for-privacy@justmay.be wrote on 18/12/03 12:17:

If I say: "most sheep are white", you don't refute that statement by saying: "Ah, but you can find black sheep if you know where to look."

I believe I have never, ever drunk wine in a pub ...

So what? I said Haut Brion, which would cost you around £20 to £25 for a

in article dehEb.43787$ snipped-for-privacy@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk, Ophelia at Ophelia snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.ok wrote on 18/12/03 12:23:

Personally I drink Domaine Chandon Green Point - owned by the same company as Moet, made with the same grapes, using the same methods, just as good (maybe better) but £10 a bottle less than non-vintage Moet because it comes from the company's winery in Australia and isn't allowed to say "Champagne" on the bottle ...

in article dehEb.43788$ snipped-for-privacy@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk, Ophelia at Ophelia snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.ok wrote on 18/12/03 12:33:

My apologies if what I said came across as rude. It was not intended to be.

in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, Reid at snipped-for-privacy@fell-walker.co.uk wrote on 18/12/03 12:57:

An interesting point, but I suspect the unit costs of a pint of Stella produced at Interbrew's megakeggery at Magor are considerably less than those of, say, Brendan Moore at the Iceni brewery, who is sourcing the best Maris Otter floor-made malt and so on, and effectively hand-crafting his beers, but is expected to sell them for the same price, or less, as the allegedly "reassuringly expensive" stuff. The "reassuringly expensive" gimmick works a lot better with wine in getting people to pay five times more for a bottle that is only dubiously twice as good as the cheaper wine.

LOL Bleaghhhhhhhhh

"Champagne"

I haven't seen that around. Mind you, I haven't been looking:)

If I see it I might give it a go:)

Following up to Jeff Pickthall

Thanks!

In article , Reid writes

I doubt that. Perhaps Messrs Hardman, Lees, etc., will be able to back up this doubtful claim.

In article , Steven Pampling writes

Yes frequently. I find all of them excellent and stimulating company.

You are too kind, Steve!

P.S. I'm pleased for you about Rugby Airport. Pity about the others.

Following up to Martyn Cornell

I was speaking to a supermarket wine buyer who intended to ,and did, increase the price of a wine because it *wasn't* selling enough!

While I agree with you about the disproportionate tax burden on cheap wine, how much of anything on a supermarket shelf goes to the primary producer?

Following up to Steven Pampling

Most of the beer in my local supermarkets is widget can dross or lager. If I want British beer I go to the one real ale off license in the area and bring home a plastic "carryout". The supermarket has a display of ("real ale style") bottled beers smaller than the real ale off license. The supermarket has a range of wines including many of the ones I would drink in the producer countries. I can get a Moet or a Faustino Primero or a Gran Viña Sol if I want them, so to me the supermarket serves me better for wine than beer.