Guardian - Beer-v-Wine with food.

Following up to Adrian Tupper

spirit of christmas :-)

Following up to Judith Umbria

what is Thunderbird? I'm sure there is a song that mentions "Thunderbird wine".

Yes - the wine is American, and the song is "Sweet Gene Vincent" by Ian Dury and the Blockheads from his "New Boots and Panties" LP.

you are unlikely to get that stuff there nowadays ... either in Wasdale Head or at the Wasdale Head Inn

They do their own: Yew Barrow or Yew D'ale - can't remember which.

as I said, the situation in many many pubs, bars & supermarkets is not that simple at the moment (e.g. budvar, pils urquell, meantime beers in sainsbo's, supermarket own-brew czech stuff, new-style brewpubs in London & elsewhere) these are no longer just obscurities, nor generally is the good stuff brewed by UK (or multinational) big brewers.

in terms of draught UK ale we don't often get the chance to taste whether good ale is *ruined* by kegging, but my experiences with drinking bottled beers suggests that it can definitely be produced (1 e.g. of many - black sheep riggwelter tastes fantastic IMO). It seems to me you don't like lager ;~) but if you wanted to support a small independent UK brewery *&* try good lager in filtered but unpasteurised form then Sainsbo's have some of Meantime's stuff, (or if you're ever in London you could try their pub in Greenwich, & visit ZeroDegrees in Blackheath too for a comparison) cheers & hoppy new beer to you all MikeMcG

Following up to Chris de Cordova

as I said:-

but I don't think you can be "in" Wasdale Head" you can be "at" Wasdale Head or "in" *The* Wasdale Head", you cant be "on" Wasedale Head because it isn't a hill, its the head of a dale. I'm quite getting the hang of real-ale pedantry.

Following up to MikeMcG

How many pubs?

Of course it is. Theres a difference between putting a beer in a bottle and storing it with gas pressure which dissolves more and more into the beer. I had five or ten years of it in "The Watneys Red Revolution". That's what big brewers would like to have been giving you now. Because beer drinkers fought against it we now still have cask conditioned beers which IMHO we should be supporting.

Yes, its near me, I've been there. When the beer eventually warms up enough its so so, but not my choice.

You didn't say that at all!

anyway ... it was Chris R who said "on Wasdale Head".....

You said "*in*" ... and were correct! My quoting went amiss. And then changed your mind!!!

see?

well..... Wasdale is a valley, and Wasdale Head is the end of that valley ... and is also the name of the small hamlet there, and in that hamlet there are a few houses, a church and an inn....

so yes - you can be *in* Wasdale Head!

Round here, you just go down Wasdale Head, though.

You might be interested to know that at our last beer festival, we had some of their beer - can't remember which one ... and the brewer was there, tasted it, and wasn't happy, so he phoned and got the hotel manager to bring a replacement.

Advance notice: next Whitehaven beer festival: Oct 1st and 2nd October 2004. All Cumbrian brewers will be featured.

In message , someone writes

Do you live in that area?

Following up to someone

Yes I did, that was a cut and paste from the original post!

very likely!

bit lost there, but never mind!

Yes, fair enough. As long as we're not "on" it! :-)

noted!

Giles and Howard. Nice people.

checking further back......

ah yes - apols!

going back to sleep......

Following up to someone

none needed, it was a way back!

no, have another pint!

I'm going to, ta ............... if you know the area, you will know the spot I am going to: the Prince of Wales at Foxfield.

:o)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

The train leaves in an hour!

Yum! have one for me and send my regards to Stuart and Lynda!

Following up to Chris de Cordova

I only know round the fells, I'll look Foxfield up.

this one's worth it!

hic!

too late _ I've just got back!

they are going skiing tomorrow.....

Had loads of sands summat or other... yummy

you wouldn't like it chris, cos it's pale and fruity.

you mighta liked their foxfield stout 6%. though.

you want me to list all pubs which now sell some good lager? It would IMO be pretty long - as it would include any pub which sells Budvar or PU (I know it's now owned by SAB, but at present in the UK AFAIK it's still good beer), or any other good continental lager.

well maybe that's where we disagree - about whether good beer automatically becomes bad because it's put into a keg - tho I do agree that overcarbonated beer isn't wonderful; tho IMO it is perhaps slightly better than the (all too regular) serving of absolutely flat RA (I ask these landlords/drinkers - just what is the point of raving about the cask-conditioning of beer if you're then just going to let all the flaming CO2 out!?).

my point was that we so very rarely get the chance to see how good or bad decent beer tastes in keg that for most purposes RA supporters often feel they are right in their dictum "all cask good; all keg bad"

- a trip to a megabrew only RA pub, & a good US keg-only craft-brew bar would IMO remove that misapprehension.

I support good beer & in terms of UK styles fresh, well-kept, well-brewed cask is without doubt my beer of choice; however like many drinkers I also like good beer in all of the varieties it comes & that this includes some styles which seem to suit higher levels of CO2 & slightly cooler temps (e.g. many lagers & wheat beers) then that's how I prefer to taste them.

by happy accident, all of the time I brewed there (zerodegs -

I believe that *problem* has now been rectified. I've not tried the beers in almost a year, but the current brewer is a very capable chap.

From time to time we'd get writers(*) or beerfans look at the *keg* fonts & the beer range& then write or complain about either the temperature or gassiness of our *keg* beers - however all of the beers were *real* as the co2 was natural (tho at a higher volume than normal in the lager & wheat) & the servingtanks were air-pressure powered, not co2, nitro or mixed gas. (*IIRC TimeOut described us as only selling filtered keg beers - they never even bothered to ask)

Over Xmas I tapped an 18month old minicask of ZeroDegsBlack Lager & was pleasantly surprised at how drinkable it still was - it had lost colour & fermented out further so that the choc flavours had gone more dry & coffeeish, with a slight rumminess. hoppy new beer, cheers MikeMcG

At one time a brewery in central Oxford was producing a well known "lager" and while on a brewery visit we persuaded the staff to take a small sample from the storage tank (pre-pasteurization) and compare it with a sample from the keg in their sample room/bar.

The brewer staff agreed that the process appeared to be taking out some flavours and introducing some others that were not pleasant. They were so intrigued that they started a set of tests to investigate what the issue was. I never heard the results of their investigations.